Highlanders 2025
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@Chris said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
Article on Shaun Kempton. Couple of opportunities with other franchises, Crusaders and Blues.
Big work on is his size and physicality
Yeah Academy spot at the Crusaders not a WTG contract.
or a Rookie training contract they went to Manumaua Letiu and Eli Oduryan.And there isn't really anything splitting those three.
Yeah a bit different for me, Shaun is a good bloke I hope he goes well but I would have picked the other two.
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2025:
I'd be interested to know how tall/heavy Kempton is. I didn't think that Letiu was that big either having seen both play for the 2023 NZS team.
At the moment I'd say he will be lucky to be 95kg. Needs to get those power gains while not losing his ability to run like an outside back
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby pointing to the guys currently not winning regularly doesnt help things
You have to be patient. This squad (particularly in the forwards) is still two years off coming into its prime.
Because I am so confident in this, a Potential Highlanders Squad by 2027 (Bold Indicates Local/U20):
Hookers:
Vikena (25)
Bell (27)
Taylor (23)Props:
de Groot (28)
Bartlett (24)
LooseheadMa'u (26)
Kautai (30)
TightheadLocks:
Holland (24)
Tengblad (21)
Dunshea (31)
LockLoose Forwards:
Haig (25)
Withy (26)
Howden (26)
Stodart (23)
Lasaqa (25)
Number Eight
Openside
Loose ForwardHalfbacks:
Pledger (21)
Fakatava (27)
Lennox (23)First Fives:
Millar (24)
Robinson (27)
Muliaina (20)Midfielders:
Tavatavanawai (29)
J Whaanga (23)
Harvey (22)
Midfielder
MidfielderOutside Backs:
Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (25)
Hurley (21)
Tangitau (24)
Nareki (29)
Winger
WingerIf 2026 was to be another improvement, then you might even see some guys stick around as squad options for 2027 rather than heading offshore. Tangitau is going to be the big piece of the jigsaw if you want to compete for the title, because he is impossible to replace. I genuinely believe this squad is as good as you can cope for in this day and age where talent ID is so much better.
This is all assuming that these guys stick around in Dunedin. That’s a big if. Loose 3-4 key players to other clubs and the whole plan goes down the drain.
There comes a point in a career where you can either stick with the small up and coming team that’s building or jump ship somewhere that’s already there. How many of the players bleed Otago through and through? Haig and Holland come to mind as two players that have limited connection to the region.
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@KiwiInLondon hasn't Haig lived in Dunedin since he was 13? As for Holland he's going to be the 1st landers & Otago All black since god knows, Josh Ioane? So I would hope the lad shows some loyalty to the the environment that gave him opportunity as a young man.
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@Grooter said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon hasn't Haig lived in Dunedin since he was 13? As for Holland he's going to be the 1st landers & Otago All black since god knows, Josh Ioane? So I would hope the lad shows some loyalty to the the environment that gave him opportunity as a young man.
You'd hope so but I think the environment in professional rugby is becoming increasingly transactional. So you never know.
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Should we be concerned about last night? I don't think so, but something which has crossed my mind, is how important it is that we improve for the end of the season. If we play like we did in that 20 block after the break for the next few weeks, I fear the results we might suffer, and what that might do to the long-term confidence of some of these players.
I'd still like to think that the Moana and Canes games are very winnable, and we should be competitive at home, but we've got to find another gear.
Who starts at 10 this week will be interesting.
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Feel for Tavatavanawai his tank is near on empty, think he has played all but 20 minutes this season. bare with my ramblings I feel like at this stage last season certain guys like Millar and Te Hiwi looked fine at super now maybe regressing? Was Kenny Lynn a coach that delivered clearer communication to those boys? even a player I really rate Haig was frustrating last night giving away needless penalties. I don't really know guess I just watch in hope more than anything, frustrating at times Fakatava or TUJ will make a break but there's no support. as a fan I just plead they avoid the spoon I couldn't live that down
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The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
We probably best when we were putting up contestable kicks from halfback.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
Off the top of my head I can't. In fact the time when he should have. Against the Hurricanes it didn't come close.
Lasqa has been a strong channel runner. He has effectively been another midfielder on attack. The problem is we are running very similar players in the midfield, whether it be Jim, Tele'a or TUJ. Who is the creative player in the backline who is putting players into gaps. We effectively don't have one. A bit of a nuffy at 10, and just power midfielders.
Defensively is a bit of a shit show at the moment. Like you. I have been a bit disappointed to see Haig regularly covering 20m in wide channels with two or three guys coming at him. We have seen a team that scraps really well for 40 minutes. Then battles.
The reds game was a weird one. Where our scrum was the problem, and it didn't matter what we did the scrum just meant we were going to lose.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
Off the top of my head I can't. In fact the time when he should have. Against the Hurricanes it didn't come close.
Lasqa has been a strong channel runner. He has effectively been another midfielder on attack. The problem is we are running very similar players in the midfield, whether it be Jim, Tele'a or TUJ. Who is the creative player in the backline who is putting players into gaps. We effectively don't have one. A bit of a nuffy at 10, and just power midfielders.
Defensively is a bit of a shit show at the moment. Like you. I have been a bit disappointed to see Haig regularly covering 20m in wide channels with two or three guys coming at him. We have seen a team that scraps really well for 40 minutes. Then battles.
The reds game was a weird one. Where our scrum was the problem, and it didn't matter what we did the scrum just meant we were going to lose.
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
Off the top of my head I can't. In fact the time when he should have. Against the Hurricanes it didn't come close.
Lasqa has been a strong channel runner. He has effectively been another midfielder on attack. The problem is we are running very similar players in the midfield, whether it be Jim, Tele'a or TUJ. Who is the creative player in the backline who is putting players into gaps. We effectively don't have one. A bit of a nuffy at 10, and just power midfielders.
Defensively is a bit of a shit show at the moment. Like you. I have been a bit disappointed to see Haig regularly covering 20m in wide channels with two or three guys coming at him. We have seen a team that scraps really well for 40 minutes. Then battles.
The reds game was a weird one. Where our scrum was the problem, and it didn't matter what we did the scrum just meant we were going to lose.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. We don’t have a single play maker in the backline. The 9’s can’t do it, and neither can the 12s. We have two young developing 10s who are being asked to create everything themselves.
But, the big but, the coaches must have known this. In the above situation, you need to create attacking shapes and systems that can give the players some structure. The certainty that that gives would allow Robertson and Millar to grow and develop their own games while having a system around them that gives the attack some purpose and shape. There is literally none of that right now. I bet my bottom dollar if you were to ask any player in that team what the plan was after 3-4 phases other than kick it and hope, none of them would have an answer
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Related to this, are any of the teams executing moves well off set piece? Particularly from lineouts? That used to be a Highlanders hallmark.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Should we be concerned about last night? I don't think so, but something which has crossed my mind, is how important it is that we improve for the end of the season. If we play like we did in that 20 block after the break for the next few weeks, I fear the results we might suffer, and what that might do to the long-term confidence of some of these players.
TBH I think this is a reflection of the depth in the squad, which suggests to me that NZR isn't doing a good job of prioritising the good of the Super Rugby competition, and that of the All Blacks.
Who starts at 10 this week will be interesting.
New Zealand seems to have a real abyss when it comes to talent at 10.
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D Duluth forked this topic on
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Split the discussion about 10s into it's own thread:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/7314/current-depth-at-10 -
What a load of uninspired bollocks. Renton sounds and looks about as inspiring as a wet piece of cardboard.
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
What a load of uninspired bollocks. Renton sounds and looks about as inspiring as a wet piece of cardboard.
Mate, seriously. What do you expect them to be like after having 46 points put on them and 33 unanswered points in the second half?
What you’re seeing is disappointment. I’d rather see that. You want them to put on some fake smiles and pretend to be happy for the camera? Some people will just find anything to have a whinge about.
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
What a load of uninspired bollocks. Renton sounds and looks about as inspiring as a wet piece of cardboard.
Mate, seriously. What do you expect them to be like after having 46 points put on them and 33 unanswered points in the second half?
What you’re seeing is disappointment. I’d rather see that. You want them to put on some fake smiles and pretend to be happy for the camera? Some people will just find anything to have a whinge about.
What I’m seeing is a lack of accountability, dodging the real questions, having no answers other than oh we’re young and getting there. Same fixture last year, that same young group picked themselves back up and went from 28-0 to 28-21. The excuses JJ is using don’t really hold a lot of water.
It’s not whinging, it’s calling out bullshit. Sorry you’d rather bury your head in the sand and say “oh well next year, we’re growing!” every year for diminishing returns. Stop being so wet and see it for what it is, dogshite coaching with dogshite playing
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Well...
Like it or not. These (as you put it) 'dogshite' players under the 'dogshite' coaching are the group responsible for changing things.
We have the best head coach possible the franchise can source. The assistants are who he could source.
We won't be getting a whole lot of established players or internationally capped guys coming in. The players to come in are young, and stuck behind established players like how we have picked up Tangitau and Vikena. Or players who have come through our system.
The established players we did recruit in the last five to six years, with the exception of two or three have been awful. Hunt, Paea, Kurindrani, Ben-Nicholas, Makalio, Lowe. Heck one year Solomon Alaimalo was our marque signing and we all remember how that went. At least the guys coming in are a step up.
With our current set up and playing group we are also limited around our captaincy choices. Outside of the current duo. The other choices are Withy (24 yo), Holland (22), de Groot (Joseph seems reluctant) or Dunshea (who would make Renton seem very talkative).
10/12 is a problem. It isn't going to be remedied anytime soon. We have to be creative with what we have. As I mentioned. I'd be interested in seeing something different and trying out Hurley at 10.
The biggest challenge is to not perpetually being in rebuild mode. To get to a point where the majority of our guys are four to five years into their Super careers. Are established players. We can't be shedding players to and having to start again.
In a stating the bloody obvious we need a few guys in the All Blacks. Bring that high performance expectation, and the ability to share knowledge. To do that, we need to have a well performing side to help the strong guys showcase their skills.
Being beaten by 30 points sucks. I have no desire to change your mind. I don't think it is possible. As a squad we are so in the red experience wise compared to our oponents. Chiefs had over 100 international caps on their bench. We had about 150 Super games between our eight guys. Mostly made up by Lowe and Gilbert.
Still doesn't excuse 30% of the field being left open on defence. Or guys missing easy tackles.
There has been a lot of two steps forward. One step backwards with the side. We should have won some of the earlier games this season.
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