Highlanders 2025
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
Off the top of my head I can't. In fact the time when he should have. Against the Hurricanes it didn't come close.
Lasqa has been a strong channel runner. He has effectively been another midfielder on attack. The problem is we are running very similar players in the midfield, whether it be Jim, Tele'a or TUJ. Who is the creative player in the backline who is putting players into gaps. We effectively don't have one. A bit of a nuffy at 10, and just power midfielders.
Defensively is a bit of a shit show at the moment. Like you. I have been a bit disappointed to see Haig regularly covering 20m in wide channels with two or three guys coming at him. We have seen a team that scraps really well for 40 minutes. Then battles.
The reds game was a weird one. Where our scrum was the problem, and it didn't matter what we did the scrum just meant we were going to lose.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
Off the top of my head I can't. In fact the time when he should have. Against the Hurricanes it didn't come close.
Lasqa has been a strong channel runner. He has effectively been another midfielder on attack. The problem is we are running very similar players in the midfield, whether it be Jim, Tele'a or TUJ. Who is the creative player in the backline who is putting players into gaps. We effectively don't have one. A bit of a nuffy at 10, and just power midfielders.
Defensively is a bit of a shit show at the moment. Like you. I have been a bit disappointed to see Haig regularly covering 20m in wide channels with two or three guys coming at him. We have seen a team that scraps really well for 40 minutes. Then battles.
The reds game was a weird one. Where our scrum was the problem, and it didn't matter what we did the scrum just meant we were going to lose.
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
The question around 10 isn't both for the rest of the season and the next couple of years.
Robinson and Millar play two very different games. Robinson works better in a flatter attacking backline. Isn't great under the high ball and had a poor few games prior to being dropped.
Millar is a fantastic kicking 10. Who sits deep in the pocket. Not great under the high ball either. Issues with his defence and attacking play.
Due to the style we are trying to play. Robinson is probably the better fit to start. On teether hand flipping between 10s isn't great for continuity.
Mika Muliaina shouldn't be seen as a 2026 option. I can see a world where he is pretty much a fulltime member though without being contracted. If I'm correct he will still be eligible for NZ U18s this year. He might get some game time for Southland this year.
The other option is to say let's see what Finn Hurley can do there. Not a solution for this year of course because he'd need time in the saddle. This comes down to the idea around who are our six best players between 10 and 15 and making them fit in.
That style you refer to, what exactly is that style?
Broadly I think we have played our best when we have played reasonably flat. Slightly ad-hoc.
Some second man plays. Looking to find the two or three guys who are game breakers. It is all about finding room for those guys. At times we have played some really good attacking rugby.
With the Robinson v Millar. Millar sits deeper. Is more likely to primarily be a kicking 10. I'm pretty open, I don't think either is the answer. But we need to find a solution and stick to it. Flipping between the two or others won't be a decent solution.
So a standard second receiver behind forward runners who sweep behind and pass it to guys what can dent the line?
Is that a sufficient game plan to win at a super rugby level? Sounds very NPC to me. Does that work after 3-4 phases against a set defence?
Can you point to any game where we have gone 3-4 + phases and actually manipulated the defence and created tries aside from individual brilliance of a few backs?
And what’s the game plan on defence? Is it to constantly leave 4-5 on 1 overlaps on the outside? The wide shots of Finau and Boshier try tells a damning tale of our defence system. Haig for two games in a row now, and he was average yesterday yes, but I feel quite sorry for him when he’s making 3-4 backs by himself
Off the top of my head I can't. In fact the time when he should have. Against the Hurricanes it didn't come close.
Lasqa has been a strong channel runner. He has effectively been another midfielder on attack. The problem is we are running very similar players in the midfield, whether it be Jim, Tele'a or TUJ. Who is the creative player in the backline who is putting players into gaps. We effectively don't have one. A bit of a nuffy at 10, and just power midfielders.
Defensively is a bit of a shit show at the moment. Like you. I have been a bit disappointed to see Haig regularly covering 20m in wide channels with two or three guys coming at him. We have seen a team that scraps really well for 40 minutes. Then battles.
The reds game was a weird one. Where our scrum was the problem, and it didn't matter what we did the scrum just meant we were going to lose.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. We don’t have a single play maker in the backline. The 9’s can’t do it, and neither can the 12s. We have two young developing 10s who are being asked to create everything themselves.
But, the big but, the coaches must have known this. In the above situation, you need to create attacking shapes and systems that can give the players some structure. The certainty that that gives would allow Robertson and Millar to grow and develop their own games while having a system around them that gives the attack some purpose and shape. There is literally none of that right now. I bet my bottom dollar if you were to ask any player in that team what the plan was after 3-4 phases other than kick it and hope, none of them would have an answer
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Related to this, are any of the teams executing moves well off set piece? Particularly from lineouts? That used to be a Highlanders hallmark.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Should we be concerned about last night? I don't think so, but something which has crossed my mind, is how important it is that we improve for the end of the season. If we play like we did in that 20 block after the break for the next few weeks, I fear the results we might suffer, and what that might do to the long-term confidence of some of these players.
TBH I think this is a reflection of the depth in the squad, which suggests to me that NZR isn't doing a good job of prioritising the good of the Super Rugby competition, and that of the All Blacks.
Who starts at 10 this week will be interesting.
New Zealand seems to have a real abyss when it comes to talent at 10.
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D Duluth forked this topic on
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Split the discussion about 10s into it's own thread:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/7314/current-depth-at-10 -
What a load of uninspired bollocks. Renton sounds and looks about as inspiring as a wet piece of cardboard.
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
What a load of uninspired bollocks. Renton sounds and looks about as inspiring as a wet piece of cardboard.
Mate, seriously. What do you expect them to be like after having 46 points put on them and 33 unanswered points in the second half?
What you’re seeing is disappointment. I’d rather see that. You want them to put on some fake smiles and pretend to be happy for the camera? Some people will just find anything to have a whinge about.
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
What a load of uninspired bollocks. Renton sounds and looks about as inspiring as a wet piece of cardboard.
Mate, seriously. What do you expect them to be like after having 46 points put on them and 33 unanswered points in the second half?
What you’re seeing is disappointment. I’d rather see that. You want them to put on some fake smiles and pretend to be happy for the camera? Some people will just find anything to have a whinge about.
What I’m seeing is a lack of accountability, dodging the real questions, having no answers other than oh we’re young and getting there. Same fixture last year, that same young group picked themselves back up and went from 28-0 to 28-21. The excuses JJ is using don’t really hold a lot of water.
It’s not whinging, it’s calling out bullshit. Sorry you’d rather bury your head in the sand and say “oh well next year, we’re growing!” every year for diminishing returns. Stop being so wet and see it for what it is, dogshite coaching with dogshite playing
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Well...
Like it or not. These (as you put it) 'dogshite' players under the 'dogshite' coaching are the group responsible for changing things.
We have the best head coach possible the franchise can source. The assistants are who he could source.
We won't be getting a whole lot of established players or internationally capped guys coming in. The players to come in are young, and stuck behind established players like how we have picked up Tangitau and Vikena. Or players who have come through our system.
The established players we did recruit in the last five to six years, with the exception of two or three have been awful. Hunt, Paea, Kurindrani, Ben-Nicholas, Makalio, Lowe. Heck one year Solomon Alaimalo was our marque signing and we all remember how that went. At least the guys coming in are a step up.
With our current set up and playing group we are also limited around our captaincy choices. Outside of the current duo. The other choices are Withy (24 yo), Holland (22), de Groot (Joseph seems reluctant) or Dunshea (who would make Renton seem very talkative).
10/12 is a problem. It isn't going to be remedied anytime soon. We have to be creative with what we have. As I mentioned. I'd be interested in seeing something different and trying out Hurley at 10.
The biggest challenge is to not perpetually being in rebuild mode. To get to a point where the majority of our guys are four to five years into their Super careers. Are established players. We can't be shedding players to and having to start again.
In a stating the bloody obvious we need a few guys in the All Blacks. Bring that high performance expectation, and the ability to share knowledge. To do that, we need to have a well performing side to help the strong guys showcase their skills.
Being beaten by 30 points sucks. I have no desire to change your mind. I don't think it is possible. As a squad we are so in the red experience wise compared to our oponents. Chiefs had over 100 international caps on their bench. We had about 150 Super games between our eight guys. Mostly made up by Lowe and Gilbert.
Still doesn't excuse 30% of the field being left open on defence. Or guys missing easy tackles.
There has been a lot of two steps forward. One step backwards with the side. We should have won some of the earlier games this season.
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Injury update.
Caleb Tangitau (Groin / 1-2 weeks)
Tanielu Tele’a (Hamstring / 1-2 weeks)
Jona Nareki (Knee/ 1-2 weeks)
Daniel Lienert-Brown (Foot / 1-2 weeks)
Nikora Broughton (Knee / MCL 5-7 weeks)
Finn Hurley (Quad / Season)
Hayden Michaels (Hamstring / Season)
Ajay Faleafaga (Hand / Season)
James Arscott (Shoulder / TBC) -
About a year ago we beat the Crusaders… for the rest of last year we made steady progress, we then recruited well, and started this season well.
We then steadily took steps backwards from after that Blues game, and now it feels like we are back where we started.
I’m not sure you can really blame the injuries. What was concerning about last night was it felt like the coaching staff panicked… they changed some of the things which were working, and unsurprisingly that didn’t go well.
JJ walked in and said he wanted Dermody’s job… has he been an upgrade? The way we are tracking we might get the spoon, and that will be so damaging to any long-term plans. I feel gutted.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
About a year ago we beat the Crusaders… for the rest of last year we made steady progress, we then recruited well, and started this season well.
We then steadily took steps backwards from after that Blues game, and now it feels like we are back where we started.
I’m not sure you can really blame the injuries. What was concerning about last night was it felt like the coaching staff panicked… they changed some of the things which were working, and unsurprisingly that didn’t go well.
JJ walked in and said he wanted Dermody’s job… has he been an upgrade? The way we are tracking we might get the spoon, and that will be so damaging to any long-term plans. I feel gutted.
So beating a 13 man Blues team off the back of a freak Hurley chip and chase was your basis for everything starting to go right?
I got shat on for saying after 2-3 games things would turn to shit. Turns out everything I said was right. It’s been a shit show. I really do mean everything I said turned out to be true. None of these players have improved after the past 24 months
I challenge anyone to find any form of gameplay that the team has implemented this season. Any gameplay. It’s been an absolute shocker.
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
About a year ago we beat the Crusaders… for the rest of last year we made steady progress, we then recruited well, and started this season well.
We then steadily took steps backwards from after that Blues game, and now it feels like we are back where we started.
I’m not sure you can really blame the injuries. What was concerning about last night was it felt like the coaching staff panicked… they changed some of the things which were working, and unsurprisingly that didn’t go well.
JJ walked in and said he wanted Dermody’s job… has he been an upgrade? The way we are tracking we might get the spoon, and that will be so damaging to any long-term plans. I feel gutted.
So beating a 13 man Blues team off the back of a freak Hurley chip and chase was your basis for everything starting to go right?
Think you’ll find it was a 13 man Highlanders team who showed real grit on defence and energy on attack.
There has categorically been changes to our attack and defence as the season has gone on.
Seemingly it coincides with Tele’a being replaced by Umaga-Jensen… coincidentally our worst performances last year were largely without Tele’a.
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@frugby agreed. In the midfield Telea being replaced has been a major issue.
Funnily enough Gilbert being dropped from the backline has not helped. I think we need to acknowledge that while he may not be an amazing player - he is a good leader. The team needs those right now.
Then finally we need to settle on a halves pairing and build them. Based on what I'm seeing that's probably Hastie & Robinson. But there's not much in it. Fakatava breaks open games but his leadership seems to go missing in key moments. Millars being dominated physically at the moment and seems short of confidence. The fact that if you're not starting as a halve you're being dropped isn't helping. Robinson needs to be on the bench not the sidelines for the rest of the season. We can't afford to loose Hastie either at the moment. We've spent five years developing him - and seem content to throw that all down the tube for Adam Lennox.
Ma'au has taken major steps backwards this year and I'd be in favour of him being benched with Kauitau starting for now.
My starting xv (assuming Telea is back this week) would look something like this. I'm assuming Holland is out for his HIA.
- De Groot
- Vikenna
- Kakuitau
- Dunshea
- Stodart
- Haig
- Lasnga
- Withy
- Hastie
- Millar
- Nareki / Manson
- Timcoi T
- Telea
- Gilbert
- Kneepkins
- Taylor
- Bartlett
- Ma'au
- Howden
- Renton / Loft
- Fakatava
- Millar
- Umunga Jensen
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@handa457 in the simplest of terms use Width.. as we saw with our only tries last night the ball beats the man, looks like Hastie & Kneepkens are the only few that know this. if Vikena, Ma'u and our midfielders continue to go up the guts on repeat Savea and his teammates won't be phased in the slightest
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Well, I’ve got some positive news after a doom and gloom last couple of weeks.
Despite what someone was saying a few weeks back, I’ve been told by a reliable contact that Tangitau is in fact staying put with the Highlanders for the duration of his current contract. They also stated that going to the Highlanders has got him away from a crowd that wasn’t good for him.
Encouraging to hear and good for Caleb for getting out of his comfort zone in the first place. Here’s hoping he’s back on the field soon to continue to push for the Black jersey.
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2025:
Well, I’ve got some positive news after a doom and gloom last couple of weeks.
Despite what someone was saying a few weeks back, I’ve been told by a reliable contact that Tangitau in fact be staying put with the Highlanders for the duration of his current contract. They also stated that going to the Highlanders has got him away from a crowd that wasn’t good for him.
Encouraging to hear and good for Caleb for getting out of his comfort zone in the first place. Here’s hoping he’s back in the field soon to continues to push for the Black jersey.
Good to hear... any word on his groin?
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I'd like to see the Landers go back to what worked early on in the year. We need to play with speed, and tempo - go back to the 6-2 split. We have been desperately poor late in games, which probably speaks to a lack of depth. My team:
- de Groot
- Vikena
- Kautai
- Howden
- Dunshea
- Haig
- Lasaqa
- Withy
- Fakatava (Think he has actually been really good since coming back)
- Robinson
- Nareki
- Tavatavanawai
- Tele'a
- Tangitau
- Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
If Tele'a ain't fit, I have no clue what I'd do in the midfield, but TUJ at centre just does not seem to work. Maybe we could try swapping him and Jim around? If no Nareki/Tangitau, then I'd go Gilbert and Filimone.
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@frugby didn’t get any update on that but heard he was pretty close to returning over the weekend. Hopefully he’s back next week, we need him.
