Rugby or NFL
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i don't mind if the ref misses something (hopefully not part of the drama tho!), i can accept that
but i go off-my-head when the ref calls something that didn't happen!
like a knock-on, forward pass, off-side, etc; that wasn't
when that happens the ref is clearly imagining things - a referee shoudn't imagine things!
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@Kirwan said in Rugby or NFL:
Watching the games last right, with all the interruptions from the 100 or so refs they have now, it felt more like NFL than Rugby.
The search for 100% accuracy and safety in all decisions has completely removed fluidity and flow from the game.
No space, just brutes running into each other.
Certainly not the game for all shapes and sizes anymore.
Not sure I agree with this.
Here's my "World XV backline of light players"
15 McKenzie
14 Kolbe
13 Am
12 Ford
11 Bielle-Biarrey
10 Russell
9 De KlerkOnly one of them over 90kg ( hard to find small midfielders ). A couple under 80kg. That backline could compete with any in the world.
Disclaimer: There might be a bit of sideways running and lack of go forward in some cases.
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the rules of rugby union should allow for more dynamic play than the other full-contact field football codes (american football and rugby league)
in those other codes the ball is dead at the break down - not so in rugby union, and you'd think that would give rugby union an edge in watchability
but right now, amazingly, i'd rate both the NFL and NRL as being more dynamic, at least how the game appears on a screen
i watch a lot of the NFL and NRL nowdays, they are constantly tinkering with their "product", trying to ensure it "flows"
rugby union is trying to do the same thing i guess - but it seems every alteration they make, it gets even more stop-start
makes for an annoying watch, probably still ok to actually play tho
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WR don't seem to have an interest in speeding up the game. They allow spurious injury and water breaks, the constant scrum resets, the takeover of TMO. Add to that the way the game is currently played, with the box kick and up n under kicking duels, these things don't make for an exciting onfield product
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very wierd
i think it may have something to do with having been the most rabidly amateur (i.e. conservative) sport on the planet for over a century
and now, seemingly incable of making the "market/commenrcial/product" adjustments
see how even a sport like cricket has changed!
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@mohikamo said in Rugby or NFL:
very wierd
i think it may have something to do with having been the most rabidly amateur (i.e. conservative) sport on the planet for over a century
and now, seemingly incable of making the "market/commenrcial/product" adjustments
see how even a sport like cricket has changed!
Rugby has always been arrogant. They think their game is the best and that the fans should be grateful
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@mohikamo said in Rugby or NFL:
very wierd
i think it may have something to do with having been the most rabidly amateur (i.e. conservative) sport on the planet for over a century
and now, seemingly incable of making the "market/commenrcial/product" adjustments
see how even a sport like cricket has changed!
Without going too much off topic the England chase vs India will be VERY interesting. HUGE total to try and get.
There is too much T20 but despite that the skills that guys have picked up have made test cricket more exciting on the whole.
But back on topic yes, the stoppages have ruined rugby. So many great moments of the past would be questioned nowadays.
Merhts pass in this example is VERY dubious....but I have no doubt that the flatmates and I would have kicked the TV over at 3am if it was disallowed.
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I can understand the need to “get every call right” - it’s an admirable aim. But it’s not realistic. Instead we have to live with some ambiguity, some level of refs missing stuff, all for the betterment of the product,
Otherwise we will soon have a chip in the ball tracked by Starlink to calculate the exact trajectory of the ball from the hand of the passing player moving forward, we wil have every player rigged up with sensors to see when the ball detaches from their hand or when they manage to get a knee to the ground in a tackle…
Where does it end?
I can’t watch an NBA game live anymore unless I’m with 5 mates drinking beers and eating hundreds of wings. It’s too long and painful.
I fear rugby is on its way there.
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I think it’s already there. Especially at international level. Trying to search for perfection when that’s just not possible.
I’d honestly look to get rid of the TMO other than for groundings or in touch in goal.
If you’ve got to the in goal without something clear and obvious to the three goddamn sets of eyes on the park then you should get the benefit of the doubt your work to get there was legal. -
@zedsdeadbaby said in Rugby or NFL:
I’d honestly look to get rid of the TMO other than for groundings or in touch in goal.
That's where it started. I think it's great to go back, but you have to be prepared to accept missed howlers. And politically that won't happen I suspect.
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@nzzp said in Rugby or NFL:
@zedsdeadbaby said in Rugby or NFL:
I’d honestly look to get rid of the TMO other than for groundings or in touch in goal.
That's where it started. I think it's great to go back, but you have to be prepared to accept missed howlers. And politically that won't happen I suspect.
As a start, the TMO should only look at things when asked to by the ref. Not be scouting and hunting for things on their own.
If you went further, you could keep the TMO but only use them for [2] captains challenges per game
Or they could be ditched altogether.
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The cynic in me wonders if we'd be very happy to restrict the TMO, until they can't rule on a dead set howler against our own team that the ref has missed. "FFS, how can they let that stand!!"
I think the genie is forever out of the bottle... best middle ground might indeed be that captains challenge model where you burn them if you get them wrong, so it's then on our own team if they Shane Watson the reviews.
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@NTA said in Rugby or NFL:
DRS!
I did love this CricInfo take on Khawaja burning a review...
2.5 rapped right in front, and that is plumb with a capital P! Almost a carbon copy of Khawaja's dismissals in the last two innings. This starts outside off, pitches on a back of a length and swerves back in devilishly. Khawaja is caught on the crease again and gets pinned on the back leg. The ball might have kept a little low as well, but that seemed pretty adjacent. Khawaja, though, wants to have another look. There is daylight between bat and ball. Ball Tracking comes up and...reckons the ball would have missed off stump. And leg stump. Because it is absolutely clattering into the middle of middle stump. Khawaja's woes continue, and Australia's top-order woes continue! 4/2
On top of a great burn of his judgement, it puts the onus on the team if they're trying to overturn an official decision.
The rugby model might have had the third umpire intervening for another two minutes just as Usman was about to cross the boundary rope, before sticking with the original decision.
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@mohikamo said in Rugby or NFL:
i don't mind if the ref misses something (hopefully not part of the drama tho!), i can accept that
but i go off-my-head when the ref calls something that didn't happen!
like a knock-on, forward pass, off-side, etc; that wasn't
when that happens the ref is clearly imagining things - a referee shoudn't imagine things!
Yeah, it's fairly common for refs to make calls on what they think happened, or the mabo, gets frustrating.
Like a tackled player releasing the ball, then the tackler gets one hand on it but no lift, or lifts but just drags/pulls it into the tackled player with no intention of actually retrieving the ball.
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The part I heard i didn't like was on the run Berry saying "I think it's saw.... can you check" and it wasn't foul play.
Rugby is too chaotic to be governed like this. I have said it for years. And I have been consistent.
In a game where the difference between a penalty either way is a guess about timing, and something that is legal becomes illegal at a certain point, is impossible to be adjudicated on replay.
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Maybe they should ensure the ref makes a call (eg i think a try was scored) then the TMO has 60 sec to check, otherwise refs call stands, plus, we have also seen the ref and TMO seeing it differently over comms (highlighting the issues with the game)
Part of the issue with the TMO is the time, the endless replays over and over, looking for a reason to overturn a decision rather than check and get on with the game.
Sure they are there to ensure the right decision is made, but when this detracts from the flow and continuity of the game and fan engagement, then something is wrong.
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@taniwharugby said in Rugby or NFL:
Maybe they should ensure the ref makes a call (eg i think a try was scored) then the TMO has 60 sec to check, otherwise refs call stands, plus, we have also seen the ref and TMO seeing it differently over comms (highlighting the issues with the game)
Part of the issue with the TMO is the time, the endless replays over and over, looking for a reason to overturn a decision rather than check and get on with the game.
Sure they are there to ensure the right decision is made, but when this detracts from the flow and continuity of the game and fan engagement, then something is wrong.
But eventually a TMO will make a mistake (I know they do even now) because they are under time pressure, and the great unwashed that have time to look at multiple replays over and over will become incensed when a call goes against their team.
I have said it before, we deserve what we have now because of all the bleating about refs. And we still do it. One just needs to read any match thread on the Fern to see examples.
