Peyper Stats Vs AB
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@Duluth said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
In the 3 games on tour, the opposition has conceded 4 penalties. Thats a really low amount. I thinks its related to the quality of our breakdown work.. we aren't putting much pressure on the opposition ball
Wow, that's amazing.
I think your breakdown causation/correlation point is a good one.
As an aside. There were a few times on the weekend v the Irish when I would start to get a bit excited when it looked like an Irish carrier was about to get isolated, but then we either got blown away by the clean out , or simply gave it no notice as moved to fan out on pure defence. This was in the second half, was frustrating as I thought we really needed some possession then.
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@Duluth Are we not putting pressure on the ball because we seem more likely to get pinged than the opposition? It looked to me in Dublin like the ABs were consciously avoiding the breakdown, maybe backing their defence rather than risk an inevitable penalty and potential YC from a guy who had different standards for the 2 teams. It very nearly worked flawlessly too, Fekitoa giving away a moronic yellow wasn't in the script.
Edit: that may explain the low possession too. Hard to say with the small sample size of course.
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Without it becoming too much of pedantry contest, I think you'd need to include what the penalties were for - to get some insight into areas of concern/disbelief
And you'd need to compare another one or two team's results/offences in a similar fashion.
I might even get around to it at some point, but I'm too knackered this evening.
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Giving away an early offside penalty in the first few minutes as we 'test' the day's offside setting can't help.
Offside penalty, bang it into touch 40m for a lineout - resulting in rolling maul. That gets brought down (inevitable), and already in first few minutes ref is thinking about cards and keeping a mental tally.
Our offside line has had me yelling at the TV a few times this year.
After these 2 games v Ireland, I think we should add picking up or kicking a ball at the halfbacks feet at the back of a ruck to the list of "not worth it".
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@NTA said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
Is Peyper too harsh?
Or is every other ref too lenient?
I know this is a troll, but when one side is getting pinged for everything, and the other wins penalties at the ruck without releasing players or being on their feet, then the relevant question should be is Peyper incompetent/or a homer?
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Our offside penalties seem to be the result of our pillar/post defenders playing on anticipation, and everyone following them (as they should). The start to come forward when they think the halfback is going to pull the ball out, which is great when it's right, but when it's not...
I have noticed a few occasions, and at least a couple on the weekend, where the halfback looks like he is picking it up, but gets a knock or the ball moves, so he pulls out, but our boys have already gone. whistle. penalty. Peyper let a couple go because the guy going forward stopped and had not effect on play, but blew others.
There are definitely things for us to work on, even with a poor ref performance.
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@mariner4life said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
I have noticed a few occasions, and at least a couple on the weekend, where the halfback looks like he is picking it up, but gets a knock or the ball moves, so he pulls out
That should be a penalty for baulking.
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@Kirwan said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
@NTA said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
Is Peyper too harsh?
Or is every other ref too lenient?
I know this is a troll, but when one side is getting pinged for everything, and the other wins penalties at the ruck without releasing players or being on their feet, then the relevant question should be is Peyper incompetent/or a homer?
There are a few factors, not the least of which is the ref's style. If they tend to give attacking rucks a bit more sway (lot of SH refs - particularly Peyper, Joubers, Marius - are like this) and you spend most of your time defending, expect to get pinged more.
If your game plan is built around defending for long periods then counterattack - like the ABs - then that might affect how you're going to draw the ref's ire.
Peyper is very much into letting the players sort it out BUT once he's made his mind up on something, it doesn't tend to change.
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@antipodean said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
@mariner4life said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
I have noticed a few occasions, and at least a couple on the weekend, where the halfback looks like he is picking it up, but gets a knock or the ball moves, so he pulls out
That should be a penalty for baulking.
Absolutely - don't see this done enough where the halfback at ruck or scrum time is faking an exit. Its in the Law book that a team gets penalised for that.
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@NTA which is fine analysis, if Peyper didn't let the Irish defenders infringe with impunity at the ruck, hands on the ground/no release of tackled players/turnovers from their knees. It wasn't a case of favouring the attacking side, it was a case of allowing one side to do what they wanted to turn the ball over, while hammering the other side.
The penalty count on the weekend was massively lop-sided. While should probably still have worn the vast majority of ours, Ireland should definitely have had more.
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@NTA technically yes. But if the HB makes it look like he has been shoved by a counter-ruck, it would be very very tough for a ref to blow a penalty for something that is never called.
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@mariner4life
Yep, real baulking is no good, but that doesn't appear to clearly be what's going on. I think we've got a number of work ons about systems around the breakdown - pillar communication, speed, and chasing out too quickly.Personally, I think we were strongest there when we had Messam in the team as he often did that role well.
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@mariner4life said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
@NTA technically yes. But if the HB makes it look like he has been shoved by a counter-ruck, it would be very very tough for a ref to blow a penalty for something that is never called.
If he's got his hands on the ball, fuck 'em.
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@antipodean it's never been reffed that way, ever.
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@mariner4life said in Peyper Stats Vs AB:
@antipodean it's never been reffed that way, ever.
Yes I'm well aware of that thanks. I'm pointing out that too many scrum halves put their hands on the ball, then start directing traffic, then pull the ball out.
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@antipodean nice snarky "thanks".
Was the interpretation changed a few years back from out being "hands on the ball" to actually when the ball is pulled from the ruck? Or was that only club rugby? My last couple of years playing that was definitely the rule i was playing under, but that doesn't mean the pro game is the same.
