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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@reprobate said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@Kirwan how did Hitler go?
He was also not a right winger. He was yet another socialist...
if you actually think that, then you ought to do a bit more reading on the subject.
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@reprobate said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@reprobate said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@Kirwan how did Hitler go?
He was also not a right winger. He was yet another socialist...
if you actually think that, then you ought to do a bit more reading on the subject.
I have read plenty about it thanks. He was a member of the Workers Party and then the National Socialists, it has been proposed that he was a 'spy' but that was never proven... and remains just a claim... quite baseless one at that. It is also claimed that he was not a socialist because he hated communism, but as history shows left wingers are never slow to purge other left wingers.
The reality is that he espoused MANY left wing views such as big controlling government, loss of liberty and personal freedom and govt control over both citizens and means of production.
If you had just stuck with claiming he was not a left winger you might have had a chance. But you seem to think he was right wing, which is a bit silly really given the party he belonged to, how he controlled the govt and the form the govt took. And that is before you even look at his personal statements on the matter.Such as
"German communists he had known before he took power, he told Rauschning, thought politics meant talking and writing. They were mere pamphleteers, whereas "I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun", adding revealingly that "the whole of National Socialism" was based on Marx."""find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution". Marx and Lenin had seen the right goal, but chosen the wrong route - a long and needlessly painful route - and, in destroying the bourgeois and the kulak, Lenin had turned Russia into a grey mass of undifferentiated humanity, a vast anonymous horde of the dispossessed; they had "averaged downwards"; whereas the National Socialist state would raise living standards higher than capitalism had ever known. It is plain that Hitler and his associates meant their claim to socialism to be taken seriously; they took it seriously themselves."
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@dogmeat said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
Don't want to get dragged into this truly bizarre pissing comp but Catholic Church more than likely outdoes all dictators of any political persuasion - combined.
Who here has actually been to Cuba?
Dictators by different name, and weirder clothes?
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@dogmeat said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
Don't want to get dragged into this truly bizarre pissing comp but Catholic Church more than likely outdoes all dictators of any political persuasion - combined.
You're probably right, but I had a look and the Chinese are pretty bad historically - Mao was the worst numerically, but they seem to have a habit of serious civil wars and atrocities... Genghis Khan would be up there as well, especially in terms of percentages of populations, as he had a nasty habit of ordering the slaughter of entire cities of tens of thousands of people, including the women and children.
Pre-20th century, King Leopold II of Belgium is high on the list for his efforts in the Congo.
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No love for Ghengis or Kublai Khan in this thread?
FFS, the point Nepia was making (which was totally misconstrued) was that dictators are dictators and are bad despite political leanings. The absurdity of doing body counts to try and prove that the political leanings of dictators makes them seemingly more efficient killing machines is some of the stupidest shit posted.
It's like the stupidity of the Road Toll with an emphasis on the number of dead rather that the number of death causing accidents (ie one minivan with 5 people having one accident is supposedly worse than four separate accidents on the same stretch of road with one death in each)
What is worse? The actual number of bodies, the percentage of the persecuted group wiped out or the political cause and effect of the actions?
Makes no difference. Assholes be assholes. -
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@Crucial said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@booboo said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
I was kind of thinking a better comparison was serial killers. Gays v Heterosexual. ie Dahmer v Bundy. Who was more evil ... ?
That obviously depends on which one voted Green.
Duh. Dahmer
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@Crucial said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@booboo said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
I was kind of thinking a better comparison was serial killers. Gays v Heterosexual. ie Dahmer v Bundy. Who was more evil ... ?
That obviously depends on which one voted Green.
Which one? Clearly they both did.
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@Crucial said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
No love for Ghengis or Kublai Khan in this thread?
FFS, the point Nepia was making (which was totally misconstrued) was that dictators are dictators and are bad despite political leanings. The absurdity of doing body counts to try and prove that the political leanings of dictators makes them seemingly more efficient killing machines is some of the stupidest shit posted.
Theres a strong element too that dictators have traditionally used whatever political slant will get them power then tossed it out the window in terms of how they actually governed, Saddam, Hitler, Stalin etc all ran on very different agendas to get in but then all very much ran the same way once in.
You could pick 10 top dictarors & the actions once in are very close, its the paths that vary. A lot of it is trendiness too, up to the 40's nationalism, was trendy as fuck, from there on communism became trendy, then Islam, now nationalism is back around. Any reasonably competent dictator can figure out what to be to get power.
Castro ran as a pro election democrat at first & suddenly declared himself a communist right after the US embargos hit & the Russians promised him oil for sugar cane deals to save his revolution. He was definately strongly left leaning, but his poltics were basically for sale for whoever would keep him in power.
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@NTA said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
@gollum said in Add Fidel to the 2016 body count:
his poltics were basically for sale for whoever would keep him in power.
I think I heard about someone like that recently ....
Obama?
RIP 2017
Hitler and the socialist dream
