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-There's only one group of people on the planet beheading other people who do not believe as they do.
-There's only one group of people pushing gays off rooftops.
-There's only one group of people flying airliners into skyscrapers.
-There's only one group of people vowing to exterminate all other groups.
-There's only one group of people carrying out daily suicide bombings.
-There's only one group of people that strap bombs to their children and send them into crowded marketplaces to die and kill others.
-There's only one group of people calling America "the great Satan" and vowing to kill Americans indiscriminately.
-There's only one group of people that have legalized pedophilia, honor killings of women and daughters, oppressing women, male guardianship of women, modesty dress codes, lack of marital rights, forced marriage, stoning deaths of homosexuals, women committing adultery, etc.And that group is defended and/or supported by much of the Western Left (read Merkel, Hillary & Obama)
Times are about to change...........at least in U.S. policy.
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
-There's only one group of people on the planet beheading other people who do not believe as they do.
-There's only one group of people pushing gays off rooftops.
-There's only one group of people flying airliners into skyscrapers.
-There's only one group of people vowing to exterminate all other groups.
-There's only one group of people carrying out daily suicide bombings.
-There's only one group of people that strap bombs to their children and send them into crowded marketplaces to die and kill others.
-There's only one group of people calling America "the great Satan" and vowing to kill Americans indiscriminately.
-There's only one group of people that have legalized pedophilia, honor killings of women and daughters, oppressing women, male guardianship of women, modesty dress codes, lack of marital rights, forced marriage, stoning deaths of homosexuals, women committing adultery, etc.And that group is defended and/or supported by much of the Western Left (read Merkel, Hillary & Obama)
Times are about to change...........at least in U.S. policy.
Racist bigot.
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Straight talk.
While I agree with what she says I can't stand her. She strikes me as the sort of person who could just as easily argue the exact opposite point if she thought it would get her fame and attention.
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(P.S. While realising you probably got that list off a Facebook post somewhere, it still isn't entirely accurate for ISIS - or even Islam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan ).
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@NTA said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
(P.S. While realising you probably got that list off a Facebook post somewhere, it still isn't entirely accurate for ISIS - or even Islam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan ).
If you include ISIS, terrorist sponsors, Al Qaeda, Etc under the umbrella of Muslim Extremists, then it seems a fairly uncontroversial list.
Which bit was inaccurate?
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"Only one group" - if you're going to say "Muslim Extremists" then OK, fine. But he didn't.
From the other items in the list, I assumed he was talking about ISIS. Or followers of Islam in general.
- "The Great Satan" wasn't one of theirs.
- Neither did they fly airliners into skyscrapers.
- Nor were they the only group to behead people (AQ did until it proved unpopular for their stated aims - which was to remove the West from Islam, not from the planet)
- "Daily" suicide bombings is questionable, but I'll accept "regular"
- Pushing gays off rooftops versus killing them in any which way is hardly isolated to ISIS/Islam
- Legalised child marriage/rape/paedophilia, oppression of women through forced marriage, FGM, male guardianship (overlording?), dress codes, death by stoning or any means - all lean toward cultural issues, that quite often parallel, but aren't isolated to, Islam.
The attacks that get covered the most in the media are the ones that affect us directly. Doesn't matter whether they're part of ISIS, inspired by ISIS, or just plain bonkers and want to kill someone in the name of something. Like that Evangelical Christian bloke in Colorado who shot up an abortion clinic in the name of the babies. Complete nutjob. Still killed 5 people.
Nobody who is right in the head wants to go on a suicide mission. That's why the supposed leaders never do. I've seen the footage of the young guys who get selected and cry tears of joy that they're going to serve the cause. Fucking hell... Religious fervour might get them over the line, but you've got to have run a decent race to sign up in the first place.
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@NTA you should read this is book mate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War_(non-fiction_book)
In it he discusses that when the coalition invaded Iraq they got more people signing up for suicide bombings than they had things to bomb so they game them numbers and told them to go home and wait for a call when their number came up.
Also when the Taliban started taking over Afghanistan they were into beheading and amputations, one of the lesser know aspects of their arseholery was not letting women outside without a husband or male relative which in a war torn country meant thousands of widows starved if they didn't have kids to go outside and beg for food. -
Might be time for me to re-read Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order. My memory may be fading but he increasingly appears to have been correct.
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@NTA said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
"Only one group" - if you're going to say "Muslim Extremists" then OK, fine. But he didn't.
So your main point of contention is I forgot to include other Muslim extremist groups under this list of atrocities. I unfairly focused on ISIS.
Do I understand that correctly?
And for the record I got it from a NY Times comments section, not Facebook.
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
So your main point of contention is I forgot to include other Muslim extremist groups under this list of atrocities. I unfairly focused on ISIS.
Do I understand that correctly?I was more answering Kirwan's reply.
As I said: not 100% sure who the "one group" referred to initially.
But shit - that's a pretty big group. I'd rather throw in all the religious whackos together if its alright.
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@NTA said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
So your main point of contention is I forgot to include other Muslim extremist groups under this list of atrocities. I unfairly focused on ISIS.
Do I understand that correctly?I was more answering Kirwan's reply.
As I said: not 100% sure who the "one group" referred to initially.
But shit - that's a pretty big group. I'd rather throw in all the religious whackos together if its alright.
No it is not alright, it is mealy mouthed obfuscation.
Just another tactic to minimise the role of Islam in global terrrorism.
Maybe a compromise and you just lump all the Islamic whackos together.... actually just the Islamic whackos who want to murder otehrs, or support them.
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@NTA with due respect since we've been friendly a long time, I can't really comprehend how you could equate Islamic terrorism with violence from any other religion, and I think it's about time you explained it using accurate statistics-for it seems very clear to me that an overwhelming preponderance of Terrorist attacks killing large numbers of people in many countries, are in the name of Islam.
Are you scared to speak the truth, or are you just a useful compliant liberal?
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@NTA
Nick (or other liberals on this board)- aside from the obvious of not meddling in Syria in the first place (thanks Obama and Hillary and Kerry) what would you have done / do about the refugee problem?-Would you have blocked them in the first place and forced them to go to only Arab countries?
-Set up enclosed refugee camps in countries nearby like Turkey?
-Or let them in wholesale like Merkel has?
-Would you start to deport them now in the wake of these terror attacks?I have asked a bunch of liberals these questions and have yet to hear any concrete plan - except saying tolerance every third word and a sense we owe these people somehow.
Personally, I would never have let them come in because I totally disagree with importing people with massively different belief systems, especially when an unknown proportion are actively despise the West and/or are at least sympathetic to Jihadist causes. On top of that, there are a large proportion that while not ISIS affiliated, are extremely anti-human rights.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sam+harris+isisI learned a lot of this from a guy called Sam Harris. (a liberal by and large)
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@Kirwan said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
So because it's not fully arrived in NZ it can't be a world war? Interesting definition.
Kind of ignores the fact that 50-80 potential terrorists are being tracked in NZ because of links to these nutjobs.
Also ignores that it's a different kind of world war that what WWII was. State sponsored asymmetric warfare, and with a stated invasion policy of breeding out the locals and undermining western law and culture.
Of course it's happening more in Europe, and to a lesser extent the US, purely because we are hard to get to. You'd have to really pushing your head into the sand hard to not think there is a worldwide war being waged on the west by Islam.
Suppose it's ignorable if you just call every attack nothing to do with the religion of peace, just the work of a lone wolf, bra.
It hasn't "fully arrived" anywhere in the West. In the 15 years its been going on.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing Islamic Terrorism isn't a thing, its a huge issue in todays world & its very much islamic, no issue with that. Same way hard left terror was a thing in the 70's. On another thread yesterday I directly named a stack of terrorist groups & pointed the finger right at the country that dictates Islamic thought to those groups FFS.
You seem to be desperately trying to tell me I don't think Islam was at the core of the attack this week what I actually said was your war line was crap.
The bit I find hyperbolic bullshit is the "we are at war!!" crap. We are not at war. There is ZERO existential threaty to the US, UK, NZ etc from Islamic terror any more than the UK was under some massive threat as the IRA mortared hotels, blew up buses & killed 100's. Or ETA in Spain or the Red Brigade in Germany. Fewer people have been killed in Europe by AQ & ISIS in the 15 year "war" than were killed in the 70's & early 80's by communist inspired terror.
The NZ secret service have regularly tracked Maori extremists, were we at war with them? Cause they killed the same number of Kiwis in NZ as AQ.
The whole "war" bullshit is just a crock to let polititians run on "I'll protect you!" platforms while pushing through internet privacy invasions, wire taps & so on. And it sells on the news.
To look at Berlin this week & go "yep, thats a war!" you'd have to have no fucking idea what Dresden looked like. There are 10's of millions of muslims in Europe, if we were at war with them it would not be one attack kills 12 people.
As for my track record, really? Cause I 100% got Trumps chances of winning wrong (tho' so far not his willingness or ability to implenent anything he promised), but what else you got? Since you've clearly been counting
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Times are about to change...........at least in U.S. policy.
It already has, Obama stopped a congress & senate approved arms shipment to Saudi last week. Tho' its maybe going to change back -
"Donald Trump, the president-elect, has said the US should halt Saudi oil imports and demand "many billions of dollars" for the military defence of Saudi Arabia."
So he appears happy to support the core funder of AQ, ISIS etc, so long as they pay him.
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Nick (or other liberals on this board)- aside from the obvious of not meddling in Syria in the first place (thanks Obama and Hillary and Kerry) what would you have done / do about the refugee problem?
-Would you have blocked them in the first place and forced them to go to only Arab countries?
-Set up enclosed refugee camps in countries nearby like Turkey?
-Or let them in wholesale like Merkel has?
-Would you start to deport them now in the wake of these terror attacks?I have asked a bunch of liberals these questions and have yet to hear any concrete plan - except saying tolerance every third word and a sense we owe these people somehow.
Personally, I would never have let them come in because I totally disagree with importing people with massively different belief systems, especially when an unknown proportion are actively despise the West and/or are at least sympathetic to Jihadist causes. On top of that, there are a large proportion that while not ISIS affiliated, are extremely anti-human rights.
Frank, seems odd that you would leave Putin and China off the list of people who meddled in Syria.
I see it as a dammed if you do dammed if you don't situation. You talk about human rights but if you don't give those same rights to the refugees are you any better then the people who would deny yours?
I am not sure how you force Arab countries to take them, without more meddling. Or how you block them, we are talking about a continent here. The border sizes are ridiculous If a wall won't keep Mexicans out of the US how would you block the entire Mediterranean coastline? Not to mention the land borders.
How do you get turkey to let them in over their borders without more meddling? If Turkey don't want anything to do with this, western influence to get them to become the holding ground is hardly going to go down well now is it.
Merkel had 2 choices in my view set up a program to let them in process them begin applications for residency start background checks, feed, cloth and house those in need. Try and root out the nasty buggers and send them back. Or she could let the majority starve at the border while those who could would have found a way in anyway and set themselves up outside the system illegally. She couldn't close every border in Europe any more then she could persuade them all that there was a better life waiting for them in Saudi, which lets be honest there wasn't. Those people were not going to go away after all they had endured to get there.
Would I deport all the syrian refugees in the wake of the attacks? If you are talking about the train attack, the xmas market attack, and Koln Train station assaults? As far as I am aware the train attack was an Afghan the Train station assaults were from mostly illegal immigrants not refugees and mostly not Syrian and the Xmas market is still unknown.
Would I deport a million people on the basis of these incidents. No I would not and I think that leads down a very dark path that the Germans are only too familiar with. Would I deport the perpetrators Hell yes!
In the midst of a massive humanitarian crisis. With 100's of people washing up dead daily on your beaches after trying to enter illegally, I would rather get them safe and legal and sort them out after approach. Is it perfect, Nope its not some will slip through. But I am yet to hear anyone regardless of political leaning come up with a better solution.
Frank where do you live? I find your comment about disagreeing about importing people with massively different belief systems a bit odd. That pretty much describes all of human history.
Anyway thats my take on it I don't have answers but I don't want a million people to starve or drown to death on my door step.
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Fuck here we go again. This thread is going to be just like every single one that went before it.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
No it is not alright, it is mealy mouthed obfuscation.
Just another tactic to minimise the role of Islam in global terrrorism.
So you're going to tell me what I should think now?
I think doing harm to others in the name of bullshit like religion is fucked. I don't care which religion.
@Wairau said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@NTA with due respect since we've been friendly a long time, I can't really comprehend how you could equate Islamic terrorism with violence from any other religion, and I think it's about time you explained it using accurate statistics-for it seems very clear to me that an overwhelming preponderance of Terrorist attacks killing large numbers of people in many countries, are in the name of Islam.
Are you scared to speak the truth, or are you just a useful compliant liberal?
Fuck. Are you a real person, or just Baron's other account?
Using statistics is about as pointless as the debate people were having on who was the bigger fluffybunny: Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, or Hitler. None of those statistics have affected me directly. Neither have any religious terror organisations - including the big Islamic ones - harmed me in any way beyond the inconveniences of greater security.
But that is a fucked perspective to take. Other people are suffering. Terrorist attacks on foreign soil are fucked. War is fucked. People are dying in Aleppo due to Islamic militia fuckwits, Christian militia fuckwits, and people whose religion is geopolitical domination under an organised military.
Are you saying any one is worse than the other?
Ask the people in the CAR if they gave two fucks about Islamic terror, given that Anti-Balaka militia - whose Christian beliefs have led them to burn witches at the stake - were the terrorists. Holding civilians hostage. Raping women. Keeping sex slaves. Murdering babies. Forcibly converting Muslims to Christianity.
Are you happy that their targets were primarily Muslim? Does that sit OK with you?
Do I judge every other Christian on the planet by their actions? Fuck no. Just like I don't judge every other Muslim by the actions of a few.
So, for the record of both you and Baron: FUCK your perspective on Islam.
Fuck statistics, and any bullshit superiority complex you'd care to derive from it.
At the same time: FUCK religion. Don't care which one it is. If people had a bit of sense and we all went around with our own personal faith, maybe we'd all be more reasonable about it.
Evil lies in the hearts of ambitious men. Not in little books that fluffybunnies use to justify their actions.
The Failed policy of Multiculturalism