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@Duluth said in US Politics:
Meanwhile what is Trump doing to get his big promises through the legislature?
He already got one Supreme Court justice nominated and passed. If he does nothing else in his 1st term, that's yuuuuge.
(Plus another one SCJ on the way...)
And same day libs and media were freaking out about his nasty, horrible deplorable mean tweet to Mika, boo-hiss, he got the so-called "Muslim ban" upheld and passed "Kate's Law." These are two things that Dems and media would have been fixated on and freaking out -- but it got barely a peep of mention, because he had those same unhinged lunatics careening into brick walls with his red-laser-light-pointer cat-toy with their freaking out about their poor victim cohort media celebrities Joe & Mika. Now, he couldn't have done that on purpose, could he?
The Art Of Distraction. It's clearly successful, because even you didn't notice it.
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@NTA said in US Politics:
Brian Stelter is so clueless he probably never heard of Wrestlemania, let alone knew Trump participated in at least one.
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My post was about his lack of legislative success on his big issues. You counter with nothing on that topic
@Salacious-Crumb said in US Politics:
The Art Of Distraction. It's clearly successful, because even you didn't notice it.
Blah blah 4d chess, unicorns and make believe
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HIs big issues were "the wall," the travel ban, make friends w/ Russia. His term isn't over.
Like I said, it was right under your nose and you missed it because you were careening into same brick wall distracted. Sorry, but it's funny. It's less like 4d chess than it is 3-card monte.
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@Duluth said in US Politics:
Meanwhile what is Trump doing to get his big promises through the legislature?
The 3 biggest ones were: healthcare, a wall and some sort of massive government intervention in international trade (yuck)
Health care is stalling because of Republican holdouts (who are on the correct side IMO). Trumps negotiations with them has gone nowhere and the bill is at risk of not passing.
Normally a President in this situation would make his argument in public and apply pressure to the holdouts.
I think he had a window to do that after the Dems had backed away from the Russia probe (see Schumers comments two weeks ago) and CNN had been chastened by a series of negative stories.
But instead no pressure is being applied because no one is talking about the bill
Or has he admitted defeat and wants a diversion? Terrible for Trump either way.The Wall? No money from Congress = No Wall.
Where's the President using the bully pulpit? Has he admitted defeat (this year at least) on this?Government intervention in trade? Barely worth mentioning because nothing like this seems to be even close to being discussed by Congress (good, hopefully he forgets about this)
I don't have an issue with most of the attacks on the media. However this last week has been counter productive. He needed to get the public putting pressure on his own party.
He desperately needs legislative wins before everyones eyes start drifting to the 2018 mid termsTrump is being held to a different standard, he has been in office less than 6 months.. and the media is already pushing the narrative that he isnt doing anything... which is a nonsense.
The wall is moving forward, I think they just announced some stuff on that with some prototypes being trialed this US summer. Why would he admit defeat on this? He did get money from congress on this, via the usual back door methods. And he wasnt just about the wall.he was talking aobut protecting the US southern border, which he has done by getting rid of constraints on ICE officers and changing tactics, which has led to a huge drop in illegal crossings. Yet still that isnt enough because? That stuff is real, significant and most all matters to his voters.. and many voters in general.As for healthcare.... it took Obama TWO YEARS to get his affordable care act through, now people are demanding a new healthcare system in less than 6 months? He did get a version through congress, now it is being horse traded in Senate, media pressure is meaningless, these things are decided behind closed doors. The Republicans know they need to get it through, some are already talking about cancelling the summer break. The pressure is already on, some media reports aint going to do squat,
I am getting pretty sick of this media driven narrative that nothing has happened (whilst at the same time telling everyone how he is ruining everything). -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
it took Obama TWO YEARS to get his affordable care act through, now people are demanding a new healthcare system in less than 6 months?
But he promised, and has all the seats he needs to do it, does he not?
Are we going to blame those Republicans who won't toe the party line because their constituents believe Trumpcare is not as good as Obamacare?
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
it took Obama TWO YEARS to get his affordable care act through, now people are demanding a new healthcare system in less than 6 months?
But he promised, and has all the seats he needs to do it, does he not?
Are we going to blame those Republicans who won't toe the party line because their constituents believe Trumpcare is not as good as Obamacare?
What?
I am not sure what you mean. These things take time, Obama had the numbers as well. Took him 2 years. These things take time. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
The wall is moving forward, I think they just announced some stuff on that with some prototypes being trialed this US summer. Why would he admit defeat on this? He did get money from congress on this, via the usual back door methods
The wall is not moving a head without Congress. Sure there's prototyping, but after that is done there is no money to build the wall.
There money I think you are talking about is left over from the 2006 Democratic congress decision to strengthen the border (they were pro border security at the time..)
This is a piddly amount compared to whats needed for a full wall but has allowed for a couple of photo opsWhy would he admit defeat? Well what I said was 'has he admitted defeat (this year at least)' I suspect he'll ask for the money again next year and hope for a different result.
He has not made any legislative progress on this.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
As for healthcare.... it took Obama TWO YEARS to get his affordable care act through, now people are demanding a new healthcare system in less than 6 months? He did get a version through congress, now it is being horse traded in Senate, media pressure is meaningless, these things are decided behind closed doors. The Republicans know they need to get it through, some are already talking about cancelling the summer break. The pressure is already on, some media reports aint going to do squat,
Yes it was hard work for Obama and he spent a lot of political capital arguing for his shitty bill. Compare that to the effort Trump has made arguing for his marginally less shitty bill.
Thats without even considering that 'repeal and replace' is not the same as 'fiddle on around the edges and wind up with the same fundamental mistakes '
(This insurance structure doesn't work unless the penalties are high enough, The Dems weren't brave enough to push for the penalties needed, neither was Obama and now the Reps and Trump are making the same mistake) -
@Duluth
The fact they wouldn't give him the money for the wall is not his fault. He is playing nice with Repubs' for now. It won't last long if they keep blocking him. Trump is FAR more popular than establishment republicans in either the Senate or House. Some are at risk of being primaried.He will get through things where he and the establishment Republicans agree - tax cuts, deregulations, pro-oil policies (which, incidentally is happening in spades). And there are some issues for which executive orders are issued and the establishment Repubs' cannot block him - travel ban
I think the establishment Republicans liked Russiagate. It gave them political cover to NOT enact parts Trump's agenda they don't like. Now that this issue seems to be receding, it will become harder for them to hide.
Considering the intense media opposition, mad Democrats, and a lot of his own party not liking him, he is doing pretty bloody well.
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@NTA said in US Politics:
There were Democrats who voted against Obamacare as well.
Yes I am sure that there was. Still not sure of your point.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
Yes I am sure that there was. Still not sure of your point.
Trump said he'd get a lot of things done, including "immediately" replacing Obamacare.
Yet he hasn't. His version was out up and withdrawn by his own party beforee it even hit the floor. Now, as @Duluth has noted, a shit version of a shit burger is coming down the pipe.
Which, to my point:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
Trump is being held to a different standard, he has been in office less than 6 months.. and the media is already pushing the narrative that he isnt doing anything... which is a nonsense.
He's getting held to the standards HE promised people during the MURICA! dumpster fire of a campaign he ran.
Maybe if he didn't spout off like a complete fucking dickhead, he wouldn't be accused of carrying on like a complete fucking dickhead.
Now "the bullies" in the media are edit: ganging up on him for acting like a complete fucking dickhead.
Poor little Donald.
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
Yes I am sure that there was. Still not sure of your point.
Trump said he'd get a lot of things done, including "immediately" replacing Obamacare.
Yet he hasn't. His version was out up and withdrawn by his own party beforee it even hit the floor. Now, as @Duluth has noted, a shit version of a shit burger is coming down the pipe.
Which, to my point:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
Trump is being held to a different standard, he has been in office less than 6 months.. and the media is already pushing the narrative that he isnt doing anything... which is a nonsense.
He's getting held to the standards HE promised people during the MURICA! dumpster fire of a campaign he ran.
Maybe if he didn't spout off like a complete fucking dickhead, he wouldn't be accused of carrying on like a complete fucking dickhead.
Now "the bullies" in the media are hanging up on him for acting like a complete fucking dickhead.
Poor little Donald.
Yes, he made campaign promises and he said he would do them faster than he actually has (or was realistic) .... like every single other US president in US history. Big woopdy doo...
As for his 'dumpster fire of a campaign'... you couldn't be more wrong.. he won. Despite the media hating him, Democrats hating him and some Republicans.As for poor little Donald .. I am sure he is ok... I would save your sympathy for the propaganda media who are seeing things crumble before their eyes and are squealing.
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Trump’s war of annihilation strategy against Islamic State frees military to quickly seize territory.
"Working with Turkey, the Pentagon estimates the flow of Islamic State recruits into Syria has slowed from 1,500 a month to 100 a month."
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/2/donald-trumps-isis-annihilation-strategy-quickly-l/
I want another WWE video, with Trump beating the shit out of ISIS.
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It is entirely acceptable to hold Donald Trump to a standard different from previous presidents because
he asked us to.
He bragged and blustered his way to victory on a platform of outlandish promises and schemes that people imagined he was capable of.
He got up front and centre and deliberately used emotive and combatant language to get this position.
He was so full of bravado and "Making America great again" that he basically set the tone that he would get all this done.Nevermind what OBama did - what's Donald doing??
It seems to be the constant defence from Trump supporters (plus countless media conspiracies of course) to compare him to previous presidents (well one actually)
Besides surely this man , this truly great man, would scoff at comparisons yet the defence that Trump supporters wheel out is overwhelmingly "what about...."
or
it's somebody else's fault (media, Dems, judiciary)
but Donald seemed so sure back in November. He convinced so many that he'd make America great again and with such confidence that 7 months on, you'd think there'd be some sort of visible progress on that.
I'm really curious to see and learn what attributes, skills or even an ethic that Trump possesses that will enable him to do all that he promised.
All I see is a man worshipped for being rich and rude and being on reality TV
A man prone to speaking absolute falsities "OBama founded ISIS".
A man with no political experience (business experience ain't the same)
A man with a reputation for firing people
I get that his winning campaign was a very clever manipulation, (a winning campaign, no doubt about it) but after the dust settled we still have a man whose main attributes are spending and amassing the family fortune and being an attention seeker - on a huge scale.
What else is he? no, not in name but in actual deeds?
I lived under the leadership of a very similar guy for 14 odd years. Taksin Shinawattra is a man elected ostensibly because he'd amassed great wealth and those that didn't have wealth (the electorate) presumed such a rich man would have the answers to my life and make it better.
After he was ousted (the settings are different but the personalities are the same) the country is left terribly divided and the leader incredibly richer than when he got in.
He had a "my way or the highway" character about him too. And a "daddy knows best" public persona
I put it to the Trump supporters that Donald is the same type. One who covets unconditional power and will personally enrich himself and the the making America great again will be an inconvenient thorn in his side till he retires with health issues or it will be somebody else that is to blame for several wasted years as the populace realises that being rich and a braggard is no indication of presidential success.
If you'd endulge, I wonder what Trump supporters see in this guy that will logically and realistically make America great again?
We all agree that after the talking it's up to Trump to get this done, regardless of the obstacles, and then he shall be judged as Donald Trump, US President and not Donald Trump, the pros and cons as compared to other presidents.
Sam Harris also has described the difficulty in finding out from Trump supporters why he should be supported other than, he won, he's rich and successful and he's in it for the people of America.
Why support/defend this guy?
If he nails it and makes America great again then shame on me, but at the moment I'm reminded of an Oaklahomian who used to say "Don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining"
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@Siam said in US Politics:
It is entirely acceptable to hold Donald Trump to a standard different from previous presidents because
he asked us to.
No he didnt
He bragged and blustered his way to victory on a platform of outlandish promises and schemes that people imagined he was capable of.
Rubbish, his policies were no more outlandish than any past presidents.
He got up front and centre and deliberately used emotive and combatant language to get this position.
He was so full of bravado and "Making America great again" that he basically set the tone that he would get all this done.Nevermind what OBama did - what's Donald doing??
Because the complaint is that he isn't getting it done fast enough. Compared to what? His detractors expectations? They are irrelevant. His supporters expectations? They are relevant .. but they are not going anywhere.
It seems to be the constant defence from Trump supporters (plus countless media conspiracies of course) to compare him to previous presidents (well one actually)
Besides surely this man , this truly great man, would scoff at comparisons yet the defence that Trump supporters wheel out is overwhelmingly "what about...."
or
it's somebody else's fault (media, Dems, judiciary)
Because the hypocrisy of his detractors is off the charts.
but Donald seemed so sure back in November. He convinced so many that he'd make America great again and with such confidence that 7 months on, you'd think there'd be some sort of visible progress on that.
There is.
I'm really curious to see and learn what attributes, skills or even an ethic that Trump possesses that will enable him to do all that he promised.
You arent really, you already dislike him, you have zero interest in giving him a chance.
All I see is a man worshipped for being rich and rude and being on reality TV
Yes.. I am sure that is all you see. Others see very different.
I get that his winning campaign was a very clever manipulation, (a winning campaign, no doubt about it) but after the dust settled we still have a man whose main attributes are spending and amassing the family fortune and being an attention seeker - on a huge scale.
Clever manipulation? Of the deplorable? What is political campaigning but manipulating?
I lived under the leadership of a very similar guy for 14 odd years. Taksin Shinawattra is a man elected ostensibly because he'd amassed great wealth and those that didn't have wealth (the electorate) presumed such a rich man would have the answers to my life and make it better.
After he was ousted (the settings are different but the personalities are the same) the country is left terribly divided and the leader incredibly richer than when he got in.
He had a "my way or the highway" character about him too. And a "daddy knows best" public persona
Didnt you just have a rant about comparing Trump to former presidents.. but here you go comparing him to completely different countries ex leaders? Least when comparing to Obama it is the same country and the same job.
I put it to the Trump supporters that Donald is the same type. One who covets unconditional power and will personally enrich himself and the the making America great again will be an inconvenient thorn in his side till he retires with health issues or it will be somebody else that is to blame for several wasted years as the populace realises that being rich and a braggard is no indication of presidential success.
I put it to you that you are wrong.
If you'd endulge, I wonder what Trump supporters see in this guy that will logically and realistically make America great again?
Already been discussed. Who knows if he will make America great again. It is a catch cry, like Obama's 'Change'.. was Obamas presidency a disgrace because the only 'change' he accomplished was going backwards? I dint remember you throwing such shade around his presidency, but maybe I just missed it, I also dont remember many here getting upset when it took him 2 years to get much of anything done... which ended up being a disaster anyway.
We all agree that after the talking it's up to Trump to get this done, regardless of the obstacles, and then he shall be judged as Donald Trump, US President and not Donald Trump, the pros and cons as compared to other presidents.
Sam Harris also has described the difficulty in finding out from Trump supporters why he should be supported other than, he won, he's rich and successful and he's in it for the people of America.
Why support/defend this guy?
The narrative that he doesn't have policies that resonated with a section of voters is laughable! If You dont know those policies I suggest you are bringing a knife to gun fight in attacking his presidency. You might not agree with the policies, but to claim he doesn't have any is just laughable.
If he nails it and makes America great again then shame on me, but at the moment I'm reminded of an Oaklahomian who used to say "Don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining"
Funnily enough that is the way a lot of voters are felt about the media and democrats.
All I really hear from his detractors is a lot of name calling about him and bluster (in the broader world beyond TSF) . Actual criticism of his policies without hyperbole is basically non existent. There is no willingness to understand his presidency, how it happened or where it might lead. Just ranting, hyperbole and double standards. @Duluth asked more probing questions in his post than I have heard around here in a long time. I disagreed with him, but at least it was a debate on policy which amounted to mroe than a wall of text which to nothing but 'Trump is a poopy bum and his supporters are clueless.
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This post is deleted!
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Thank you for engaging in this discussion with me
I'm not able to use the quote function as expertly as you so I'll just leave the points you raised there for others to educate themselves as they see fit
except, I am still eager to learn what makes Trump so good (despite your surety that I'm not), I asked twice.
Trump's attributes that will make him a successful president and worth supporting? What evidence is there of that?
In the absence of any robust information I'll just assume that there is an unseen or verifiable hope that he'll steer the western world out of the morass it currently inhabits
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