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@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
So you have record knife attacks and the solution is to encourage people to chuck knives in a bin with a picture of the Cookie Monster? What the actual fuck?
You did read the bit where this 'bin' is not govt policy nor is it an attempt at an overall solution?
It is a part only of actions being taken by a regional charity to have some effect. The fact that some people are putting some knives in the bins and there are requests to make more available is testament to the idea having some small effect.
The larger effect will come from their campaign to educate and change ideas.The Police solution is to stop and search (without warrant) anyone they feel may possibly be carrying then give no leeway to those they catch.
Yes thats all the evidence I need.
For what?
That it's working to stop knife attacks.
Seriously, do you not see how utterly ridiculous that thing is? It's got Cookie Monster on it ffs.
Are you actually comprehending what that is about? I have tried to explain it.
By all means discuss and/or criticise the actual official efforts to combat the increase in knife crime but I don't see the need to keep trying to ridicule the efforts of a charity (formed by the mother of a knife crime victim) in what they are doing.
Any small effect helps. This is not, and never will be the solution, but if it is achieving anything then I'm cool with that.When did I ever say it was the final solution?
I don't care who set it up. It's utterly fucking ridiculous. You seriously think this will prevent a single knife attack?
Yes, on the face of it, it's utterly fucking ridiculous.
But I think Crucial's post adds perfectly valid context behind it.
Not everybody who carried a knife is carrying it with the view to actually commit an offence. The education process to get them off the streets isn't a black and white thing. More and more awareness can and will work to help reduce these things. Every person who walks past that has one more awareness of knife carry. If they walk past it every single day, then thats multiple more awarenesses.
Ridiculous? Yes. But so was a gorilla playing the drums to advertise chocolate.
Yes thats exactly the same thing.
I hardly think you need to raise awareness about knife crime in London. It's a very weak argument.
It isn't even in London.
OK in the UK then ffs.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
I think it may. You never know. Hardly measurable.
Does it matter though?Edit: Here is a testimonial for the charity's work. It is an opinion of course, but supported by facts. (Doesn't mention the bins, but does mention the amnesty the bins play a part in)
Within the last 18 months Tendring suffered from a spate of Knife point robberies in the summer months, arrests were made, a local criminal network was split up. Only Cowards Carry set the bar at a very high standard around the support to the preventative side of this activity, significant numbers of youths were briefed, media appeals were made and a knife amnesty was delivered to take weapons off the local streets and assist in raising awareness of the problem. Significantly figures show that through the considerable partnership efforts Serious Violent crime within the age group of 15 - 25 year olds has been reduced by 25%, Only Cowards were a key factor in making this real difference to the local youth.
- Chief Inspector, -Tendring District Commander Russ Cole 2015
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
So you have record knife attacks and the solution is to encourage people to chuck knives in a bin with a picture of the Cookie Monster? What the actual fuck?
You did read the bit where this 'bin' is not govt policy nor is it an attempt at an overall solution?
It is a part only of actions being taken by a regional charity to have some effect. The fact that some people are putting some knives in the bins and there are requests to make more available is testament to the idea having some small effect.
The larger effect will come from their campaign to educate and change ideas.The Police solution is to stop and search (without warrant) anyone they feel may possibly be carrying then give no leeway to those they catch.
Yes thats all the evidence I need.
For what?
That it's working to stop knife attacks.
Seriously, do you not see how utterly ridiculous that thing is? It's got Cookie Monster on it ffs.
Are you actually comprehending what that is about? I have tried to explain it.
By all means discuss and/or criticise the actual official efforts to combat the increase in knife crime but I don't see the need to keep trying to ridicule the efforts of a charity (formed by the mother of a knife crime victim) in what they are doing.
Any small effect helps. This is not, and never will be the solution, but if it is achieving anything then I'm cool with that.When did I ever say it was the final solution?
I don't care who set it up. It's utterly fucking ridiculous. You seriously think this will prevent a single knife attack?
Yes, on the face of it, it's utterly fucking ridiculous.
But I think Crucial's post adds perfectly valid context behind it.
Not everybody who carried a knife is carrying it with the view to actually commit an offence. The education process to get them off the streets isn't a black and white thing. More and more awareness can and will work to help reduce these things. Every person who walks past that has one more awareness of knife carry. If they walk past it every single day, then thats multiple more awarenesses.
Ridiculous? Yes. But so was a gorilla playing the drums to advertise chocolate.
Yes thats exactly the same thing.
I hardly think you need to raise awareness about knife crime in London. It's a very weak argument.
IT is exactly the same thing. A dull honesty box with a Met police badge isn't going to grab attention. A ridiculous cookie monster is!
I disagree strongly on your last comment. You'd be surprised how many people in this city who don't read media. I would really doubt that those who carry knives are aware of the changes Crucial mentions above which is going to increase the punishments.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
Yes, I do. But this is immeasurable until somebody comes out and says if it wasn't for the cookie monster, I'd have knifed him ...
Which will never happen!
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
Yes, I do. But this is immeasurable until somebody comes out and says if it wasn't for the cookie monster, I'd have knifed him ...
Which will never happen!
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@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
I think it may. You never know. Hardly measurable.
Does it matter though?Edit: Here is a testimonial for the charity's work. It is an opinion of course, but supported by facts. (Doesn't mention the bins, but does mention the amnesty the bins play a part in)
Within the last 18 months Tendring suffered from a spate of Knife point robberies in the summer months, arrests were made, a local criminal network was split up. Only Cowards Carry set the bar at a very high standard around the support to the preventative side of this activity, significant numbers of youths were briefed, media appeals were made and a knife amnesty was delivered to take weapons off the local streets and assist in raising awareness of the problem. Significantly figures show that through the considerable partnership efforts Serious Violent crime within the age group of 15 - 25 year olds has been reduced by 25%, Only Cowards were a key factor in making this real difference to the local youth.
- Chief Inspector, -Tendring District Commander Russ Cole 2015
Yes it must have been the bins.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
I think it may. You never know. Hardly measurable.
Does it matter though?Edit: Here is a testimonial for the charity's work. It is an opinion of course, but supported by facts. (Doesn't mention the bins, but does mention the amnesty the bins play a part in)
Within the last 18 months Tendring suffered from a spate of Knife point robberies in the summer months, arrests were made, a local criminal network was split up. Only Cowards Carry set the bar at a very high standard around the support to the preventative side of this activity, significant numbers of youths were briefed, media appeals were made and a knife amnesty was delivered to take weapons off the local streets and assist in raising awareness of the problem. Significantly figures show that through the considerable partnership efforts Serious Violent crime within the age group of 15 - 25 year olds has been reduced by 25%, Only Cowards were a key factor in making this real difference to the local youth.
- Chief Inspector, -Tendring District Commander Russ Cole 2015
Yes it must have been the bins.
Are you deliberately trying not to understand the picture here to make your own point? If so I won't waste any more time on it.
One last attempt though (only because I am pig-headed.The bins are PART of a package of actions based around educating and influencing young people about the consequences of carrying knifes. They don't just randomly get placed around hoping someone might see cookie monster and decide to cough up their weapons.
There is opinion provided by police and supported by stats that the package of actions has a positive effect in reducing serious violent crime.To keep focussing solely on the bins as if they are a ridiculous attempt to solve a complex problem by themselves is disingenuous.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
I think it may. You never know. Hardly measurable.
Does it matter though?Edit: Here is a testimonial for the charity's work. It is an opinion of course, but supported by facts. (Doesn't mention the bins, but does mention the amnesty the bins play a part in)
Within the last 18 months Tendring suffered from a spate of Knife point robberies in the summer months, arrests were made, a local criminal network was split up. Only Cowards Carry set the bar at a very high standard around the support to the preventative side of this activity, significant numbers of youths were briefed, media appeals were made and a knife amnesty was delivered to take weapons off the local streets and assist in raising awareness of the problem. Significantly figures show that through the considerable partnership efforts Serious Violent crime within the age group of 15 - 25 year olds has been reduced by 25%, Only Cowards were a key factor in making this real difference to the local youth.
- Chief Inspector, -Tendring District Commander Russ Cole 2015
Yes it must have been the bins.
Are you deliberately trying not to understand the picture here to make your own point? If so I won't waste any more time on it.
One last attempt though (only because I am pig-headed.The bins are PART of a package of actions based around educating and influencing young people about the consequences of carrying knifes. They don't just randomly get placed around hoping someone might see cookie monster and decide to cough up their weapons.
There is opinion provided by police and supported by stats that the package of actions has a positive effect in reducing serious violent crime.To keep focussing solely on the bins as if they are a ridiculous attempt to solve a complex problem by themselves is disingenuous.
OK Crucial. My bad. Bins with pictures of the Cookie Monster on them are a brilliant way to stop knife crime and in no way are a waste of money and resources. The proof of that? Well you can't prove otherwise so there.
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@siam said in British Politics:
Well there are at least 3 more people on this thread alone who've given knife crime a second thought so it's already had some benefit.
What a strange world when anything you can't understand is an utterly ridiculous waste of time
What an utterly ridiculous comment. Are we the target "market" here? Well 3 more people on TSF know about knife crime. That'll put a dent in those crime stats.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
No! That is where you are simply flat out wrong.
You weren't criticized by anybody, least of all me, for critiquing the absurd nature of what is being tried here. Where I and others have jumped in is your insistence that this is doing nothing / a waste of time after Crucial explained what it was about, and subsequently provided some outside thoughts on it.
If this was all the Met was doing to reduce knife crime - hell, you are 100% correct. But it's not. It's not even part of what they are doing.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used.
Is it?
Looks far more like taking a part of a strategy and critiquing it in isolation, with no context. -
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
What does ffs provide to an argument or opinion?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
Is it going to cause any?
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
No! That is where you are simply flat out wrong.
You weren't criticized by anybody, least of all me, for critiquing the absurd nature of what is being tried here. Where I and others have jumped in is your insistence that this is doing nothing / a waste of time after Crucial explained what it was about, and subsequently provided some outside thoughts on it.
If this was all the Met was doing to reduce knife crime - hell, you are 100% correct. But it's not. It's not even part of what they are doing.
Look I don't know how hard this is to understand. I am aware of the backstory and aware of the beautiful and awesome intent behind them. E for effort. But they are still ridiculous and a waste of time and resources that could have been used on other more effective methods, i. e. ones that don't involve Sesame Street characters.
British Politics