South African Politics
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A BRITISH LEGAL EXPERT'S OPINION ON EXPROPRIATION OF LAND WITHOUT COMPENSATION
Response written by Mark Philip Malcolm Horn - London Barrister. * No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.
"You can not have land expropriation without compensation. It is illegal in international law. It is contrary to a dozen treaties that South Africa has signed and ratified. As such, it is a principle that is also enshrined in South African domestic law. You can not change the Constitution therefore to make it legal - Treaty law is superior law, it always applies.
The proposal, if directed at land held by the white community, would also contravene half a dozen international treaties, notably those condemning apartheid, that South Africa since the ANC took power, has signed and ratified.
The same argument applies above, but now with the ironic twist that any such initiative would result in the ANC being condemned under international law for actions that the world would condemn as being racist.
So no, it can not be done. When Mugabe tried this, the point was litigated. These were the legal conclusions. Now, Mugabe pushed ahead, so what happened?
Well, the claims for illegal expropriation still are valid in law - at some point the Zimbabwean Government will need to pay them.
The consequence of their illegal policy is not forgotten with time. If they ever want to be re-integrated into the global community, they will need to pay.
As to the consequences of such a policy - Zimbabwe is a good example. There are no sanction on Zimbabwe. That is a myth. The only sanctions are those targeted on Mugabe and a few of his associates, and they are in place because of human rights abuses.
The economy has crashed, there is a 90% unemployment rate, for the very simple fact that Zimbabwe has shown itself to be a thief. No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.
You can not run a modern economy without access to the international market, and for that you need credit. The Zimbabwean economy has declined by 70% from what it was at independence simply because no one does business with a thief.
So what would be the consequence of a policy of expropriation without compensation in South Africa? Well, as noted, such a policy would be illegal.
The international community will immediately take note that South Africa has become a rogue state. That is not too much to worry, about, its just political. There are plenty of rogue states around the world.
What would happen, however, in terms of South Africa's access to the international markets is of far more concern. South Africa would have signaled that property rights are insecure. That will mean that international investment in South Africa would come to a screeching halt.
This has been happening for many years in any event - that is why South Africa is now ranked no. 7 in gold mining, when it used to be no. 1.
It is why South Africa has a 27% unemployment rate, and a 50% youth unemployment rate. So the response could well be: "who cares, we do not need their investment". That may well indeed be true.
But, that is not where the real crisis occurs. South Africa needs access to international financial markets because it has a trade and budget deficit. It needs access to international financial markets to pay for its bloated public sector, and to pay social grants to all those unemployed people.
To raise that money, it needs the banks. Now this is where the consequences of a policy of expropriation without compensation hits home.
Banks have, as is the nature of banking, highly leveraged Balance Sheets. They lend as multiples of the assets they actually have. They need to conform with the Basel ratio's. If they have a rise in bad debt, they can easily wipe out their Balance Sheets - they then become bankrupt, and they collapse.
So what do you think will happen if land is expropriated without compensation to the Banks? The answer is, they will see a rise in bad debt, and they will collapse.
That is not the end of the story. South Africa has seen its black population rise from approximately 2.5 m in the mid 19th century, to its current level of 50 m. The 2.5 m may be taken as the sustainable level of the black population without the benefits of colonialism, and of modern agriculture.
That 2.5 m number is important, because only 13% of South Africa is suited for agriculture, and only 3% is high quality agricultural land. The vast majority of South African agricultural land requires the application of modern technology.
Farming in South Africa is highly capital intensive. Farmers depend on bank lending not only to buy their farms, but also to provide essential working capital.
So, what happens if the land is expropriated without compensation, if the banks then collapse? Well it means no one is able to provide the essential working capital. If the farms then collapse, then up to 95% of the existing black population is at risk of starvation.
The banks can not access international markets, international lenders will not lend, South Africa then descends into chaos. At point, the international community would probably intervene military to restore order. As such, South Africa would have become yet another Failed State in the traditional African mold." -
@pn said in South African Politics:
@rembrandt said in South African Politics:
Out of interest do you have any contacts in the farming communities? A group I'm involved with will be looking at doing some publicising of what is happening and maybe some fund raising if we can find a method that isn't a scam or won't be 'appropriated' by those mass murderers in wait.
My Father bought and bagged maize from farmers across the whole of the Eastern Cape so he will know most EC (Maize) farmers. At this stage the violence is concentrated in the top half of the country - Provinces like Nothern Cape, Limpopo, North West, Mpumalanga. I can speak to him if you'd like.
Another great alternative is engaging with Afriforum a civil rights movement looking after white minority rights, specifically Afrikaaners. They've been tackling this issue as well as the infamous sport quotas.
Personally, I would like to hear what the big bankers have to say regarding their 160 billion in loans to farmers. If the farms are taken, the bankers may have a difficult time trying to recoup that money as the property would belong to the state. Surely they are flexing their muscles behind the scenes somewhere?
@jegga said in South African Politics:
It’s enough to make living in Palmetston north seem like an attractive option.
Mate, had I known Palmy was this hot, I would have brought my aircons with.The humidity is like Durban. The other colleagues which were also recruited are based in Wellington and their 40 minute commute is something I'm not envious of. I'll rather just commute for the 2018 final as I'm only 2.5 hours away.
Thanks for that mate, will definitely check them out. If you could get and share an insiders view of what is going on that would be great.
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Just been listening to a live Q & A about the upcoming #Farmlands documentary. There has been a delay with Lauren Southern being expelled from the UK as an apparent racist terrorist... However on the unexpected plus side is that from that event she was invited to talk at the European Parliament and then in turn had a number of personal conversations with some high ranking officials of about 20 different countries in which she was asked about the situation in South Africa. Funny how things work.
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Documentary should be out in a month. They've also had significant issues with DDoS attacks on their official website https://laurensouthern.net/farmlands/ the attacks apparently look more significant than you would expect from your local hacker group..read into that what you will.
The documentary will be distributed freely on Youtube once completed. They will also sell physical copies at cost only. Seem genuinely far more interested in getting the word out there about what is going on and helping prevent a potential genocide rather than trying to make some coin on it.
Not bad for a racist terrorist.
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@rembrandt said in South African Politics:
Documentary should be out in a month. They've also had significant issues with DDoS attacks on their official website https://laurensouthern.net/farmlands/ the attacks apparently look more significant than you would expect from your local hacker group..read into that what you will.
The documentary will be distributed freely on Youtube once completed. They will also sell physical copies at cost only. Seem genuinely far more interested in getting the word out there about what is going on and helping prevent a potential genocide rather than trying to make some coin on it.
Not bad for a racist terrorist.
Or a right-wing nutjob or tryhard journalist.
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Sports Minister wants Nick & Naas suspended
Supersport is investigating Ashwin Willemse’s on air walk out in protest against fellow rugby analysts Nick Mallett and Naas Botha, but in the interim the Minister of Sport and Recreation Tokozile Xasa wants the veteran SuperSport duo suspended.
https://keo.co.za/sports-minister-wants-nick-naas-suspended/
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@salacious-crumb To be fair they are white!
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@salacious-crumb If they're continually referencing him as a quota player without meaningful and relevant context then they should go. Willemse on the other hand is clearly a quota panelist. Nothing he says makes any sense or appears to have any rational objectivity in relation to the topic being discussed. Someone should review tape to see how many head knocks he took during his career.
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What did they actually say? Plenty of info on his response but nothing about what set him off.
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He may have been unfairly treated. But interventionist government officials should pull their heads back in until SuperSport has done their own investigation.
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@salacious-crumb I agree with you, but you know; TIA...
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Well that was a depressing and infuriating watch.
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@baron-silas-greenback yeah I'm going to be saving watching it until such a time that I don't need to have a good demeanour.
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I would’ve liked more solid information about how widespread the crimes are (not anecdotal). Difficult given the apparent lack of interest from the government.. but it felt like the doc was missing a segment.
Still, it was better than I was expecting from an e-celeb making their first documentary.
Any tsf saffers seen it?
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@duluth I'll post up some chats at some point with one of the blokes in my political group. He's black south african and his point of view is the crimes are happening but that the same level of crime if not worse is occurring in black communities too but it's so common place it doesn't make the news. He did his rebuttal before watching the doco however. It is important to remember Southern can be super biased so it's good to get another point of view.
I'll probably watch it next week.
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@baron-silas-greenback said in South African Politics:
What the hell would SA do if the US decided to "sort it out"
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Sort what out?