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@rembrandt said in Brexit:
The remainer in the background shouting out his key arguments particularly hilarious
The offspring of Himmler and Postman Pat
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@mikethesnow said in Brexit:
@rembrandt said in Brexit:
The remainer in the background shouting out his key arguments particularly hilarious
The offspring of Himmler and Postman Pat
A proud British icon with German efficiency, he's got my vote!
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It ought to be entirely feasible for the UK to run Northern Ireland trade in a fashion whereby the UK does not need to erect a hard border. In which case if the EU doesn't want a hard border then the simple answer is for it not to erect one. It's not beyond the wit of man.
In fact, what the EU is actually saying is that it refuses to accept that Northern Ireland can ever leave the EU, even if the rest of the UK does.
Is that true? If the referendum did one thing it showed that the UK public had lost patience with uncontrolled immigration, where in effect anyone from the EU could travel without hindrance across the soft UK border. A Brexit without a hard border will simply not deliver what most leavers (and frankly many remainers too) wanted.
But maintaining a soft border between the Republic and Northern Ireland will still allow anybody to walk from the EU into the UK, albeit with one additional step of going to Ireland first. How does that deliver the immigration controls that people expect?
Or are you suggesting that a hard border between the Republic and NI is the way forward? Maybe I'll let someone like @Derm-McCrum comment on that from an Irish POV, but I was in the UK before and after the Good Friday agreement and IMO it was one of the best things to have happened in the mainland. I was at work in Bishopsgate on the Saturday morning when the bomb went off. Nobody should have to live under the threat of that and I'd hate to see a return. Irish troubles are hardly the EU's fault.
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It ought to be entirely feasible for the UK to run Northern Ireland trade in a fashion whereby the UK does not need to erect a hard border. In which case if the EU doesn't want a hard border then the simple answer is for it not to erect one. It's not beyond the wit of man.
In fact, what the EU is actually saying is that it refuses to accept that Northern Ireland can ever leave the EU, even if the rest of the UK does.
Is that true? If the referendum did one thing it showed that the UK public had lost patience with uncontrolled immigration, where in effect anyone from the EU could travel without hindrance across the soft UK border. A Brexit without a hard border will simply not deliver what most leavers (and frankly many remainers too) wanted.
But maintaining a soft border between the Republic and Northern Ireland will still allow anybody to walk from the EU into the UK, albeit with one additional step of going to Ireland first. How does that deliver the immigration controls that people expect?
Or are you suggesting that a hard border between the Republic and NI is the way forward? Maybe I'll let someone like @Derm-McCrum comment on that from an Irish POV, but I was in the UK before and after the Good Friday agreement and IMO it was one of the best things to have happened in the mainland. I was at work in Bishopsgate on the Saturday morning when the bomb went off. Nobody should have to live under the threat of that and I'd hate to see a return. Irish troubles are hardly the EU's fault.
Surely an immigrant / migrant would still be checked leaving NI and entering mainland UK?
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@mikethesnow said in Brexit:
It ought to be entirely feasible for the UK to run Northern Ireland trade in a fashion whereby the UK does not need to erect a hard border. In which case if the EU doesn't want a hard border then the simple answer is for it not to erect one. It's not beyond the wit of man.
In fact, what the EU is actually saying is that it refuses to accept that Northern Ireland can ever leave the EU, even if the rest of the UK does.
Is that true? If the referendum did one thing it showed that the UK public had lost patience with uncontrolled immigration, where in effect anyone from the EU could travel without hindrance across the soft UK border. A Brexit without a hard border will simply not deliver what most leavers (and frankly many remainers too) wanted.
But maintaining a soft border between the Republic and Northern Ireland will still allow anybody to walk from the EU into the UK, albeit with one additional step of going to Ireland first. How does that deliver the immigration controls that people expect?
Or are you suggesting that a hard border between the Republic and NI is the way forward? Maybe I'll let someone like @Derm-McCrum comment on that from an Irish POV, but I was in the UK before and after the Good Friday agreement and IMO it was one of the best things to have happened in the mainland. I was at work in Bishopsgate on the Saturday morning when the bomb went off. Nobody should have to live under the threat of that and I'd hate to see a return. Irish troubles are hardly the EU's fault.
Surely an immigrant / migrant would still be checked leaving NI and entering mainland UK?
JC, First point is that EU doesn't care a rat's RRRs about the people border. It's concern is goods being imported into a future lax U.K. trade territory and being spirited across to Eire, thus representing a backdoor entry for noncompliant goods into EU.
I had the experience in the 90s of having an office we were about to sign a lease for being severely damaged by an IRA bomb which went of at Baltic Exchange, so take your point.
About to head for a flight to Dublin. Passport needed to enter and return. Flights from NI use separate area of airport and random checks made. Wouldn't take much beefing up to discourage illegal EU immigrants, who could be identified from the flight manifesto.
As for road entrance into a AI, presume it could operate like Geneva French border, again with random checks.
For me nothing for Brits to get too excited about.
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@bones Gatwick. You are right: passport into Dublin, segregated area/no passport on return. Pretty much like NI.
That's pretty weird. I guess the Brits rely on Ireland doing checks on everyone entering their ports despite point of origin otherwise Ireland becomes an easy gateway.
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@mikethesnow said in Brexit:
It ought to be entirely feasible for the UK to run Northern Ireland trade in a fashion whereby the UK does not need to erect a hard border. In which case if the EU doesn't want a hard border then the simple answer is for it not to erect one. It's not beyond the wit of man.
In fact, what the EU is actually saying is that it refuses to accept that Northern Ireland can ever leave the EU, even if the rest of the UK does.
Is that true? If the referendum did one thing it showed that the UK public had lost patience with uncontrolled immigration, where in effect anyone from the EU could travel without hindrance across the soft UK border. A Brexit without a hard border will simply not deliver what most leavers (and frankly many remainers too) wanted.
But maintaining a soft border between the Republic and Northern Ireland will still allow anybody to walk from the EU into the UK, albeit with one additional step of going to Ireland first. How does that deliver the immigration controls that people expect?
Or are you suggesting that a hard border between the Republic and NI is the way forward? Maybe I'll let someone like @Derm-McCrum comment on that from an Irish POV, but I was in the UK before and after the Good Friday agreement and IMO it was one of the best things to have happened in the mainland. I was at work in Bishopsgate on the Saturday morning when the bomb went off. Nobody should have to live under the threat of that and I'd hate to see a return. Irish troubles are hardly the EU's fault.
Surely an immigrant / migrant would still be checked leaving NI and entering mainland UK?
JC, First point is that EU doesn't care a rat's RRRs about the people border. It's concern is goods being imported into a future lax U.K. trade territory and being spirited across to Eire, thus representing a backdoor entry for noncompliant goods into EU.
I had the experience in the 90s of having an office we were about to sign a lease for being severely damaged by an IRA bomb which went of at Baltic Exchange, so take your point.
About to head for a flight to Dublin. Passport needed to enter and return. Flights from NI use separate area of airport and random checks made. Wouldn't take much beefing up to discourage illegal EU immigrants, who could be identified from the flight manifesto.
As for road entrance into a AI, presume it could operate like Geneva French border, again with random checks.
For me nothing for Brits to get too excited about.
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@mikethesnow said in Brexit:
It ought to be entirely feasible for the UK to run Northern Ireland trade in a fashion whereby the UK does not need to erect a hard border. In which case if the EU doesn't want a hard border then the simple answer is for it not to erect one. It's not beyond the wit of man.
In fact, what the EU is actually saying is that it refuses to accept that Northern Ireland can ever leave the EU, even if the rest of the UK does.
Is that true? If the referendum did one thing it showed that the UK public had lost patience with uncontrolled immigration, where in effect anyone from the EU could travel without hindrance across the soft UK border. A Brexit without a hard border will simply not deliver what most leavers (and frankly many remainers too) wanted.
But maintaining a soft border between the Republic and Northern Ireland will still allow anybody to walk from the EU into the UK, albeit with one additional step of going to Ireland first. How does that deliver the immigration controls that people expect?
Or are you suggesting that a hard border between the Republic and NI is the way forward? Maybe I'll let someone like @Derm-McCrum comment on that from an Irish POV, but I was in the UK before and after the Good Friday agreement and IMO it was one of the best things to have happened in the mainland. I was at work in Bishopsgate on the Saturday morning when the bomb went off. Nobody should have to live under the threat of that and I'd hate to see a return. Irish troubles are hardly the EU's fault.
Surely an immigrant / migrant would still be checked leaving NI and entering mainland UK?
JC, First point is that EU doesn't care a rat's RRRs about the people border. It's concern is goods being imported into a future lax U.K. trade territory and being spirited across to Eire, thus representing a backdoor entry for noncompliant goods into EU.
I had the experience in the 90s of having an office we were about to sign a lease for being severely damaged by an IRA bomb which went of at Baltic Exchange, so take your point.
About to head for a flight to Dublin. Passport needed to enter and return. Flights from NI use separate area of airport and random checks made. Wouldn't take much beefing up to discourage illegal EU immigrants, who could be identified from the flight manifesto.
As for road entrance into a AI, presume it could operate like Geneva French border, again with random checks.
For me nothing for Brits to get too excited about.
Joke
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@majorrage said in Brexit:
McVey gone - that was highly predicted though.
I've never thought this before ... but I'm now leaning towards a re-vote, remain for the first time.
So, the crunch debate starts today. And the revote movement over the last few days has been seriously building. And then this morning splashed all over the headlines is that Britain can unilaterally withdraw article 50.
Maybe, just maybe, May (a staunch remainer), has had this plan all along. Quite a few had mentioned it, I never really believed it. But it's all just a little bit perfect ...
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@majorrage said in Brexit:
@majorrage said in Brexit:
McVey gone - that was highly predicted though.
I've never thought this before ... but I'm now leaning towards a re-vote, remain for the first time.
So, the crunch debate starts today. And the revote movement over the last few days has been seriously building. And then this morning splashed all over the headlines is that Britain can unilaterally withdraw article 50.
Maybe, just maybe, May (a staunch remainer), has had this plan all along. Quite a few had mentioned it, I never really believed it. But it's all just a little bit perfect ...
If this was her plan then it is political manipulation of the highest standard.
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@majorrage said in Brexit:
@majorrage said in Brexit:
McVey gone - that was highly predicted though.
I've never thought this before ... but I'm now leaning towards a re-vote, remain for the first time.
So, the crunch debate starts today. And the revote movement over the last few days has been seriously building. And then this morning splashed all over the headlines is that Britain can unilaterally withdraw article 50.
Maybe, just maybe, May (a staunch remainer), has had this plan all along. Quite a few had mentioned it, I never really believed it. But it's all just a little bit perfect ...
If this was her plan then it is political manipulation of the highest standard.
Which will assure her position as PM until after Christmas at least
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Can someone explain why the govt wasnt releasing the legal document about the deal?
Seems a no brainer that the people who need to vote on it should see all the legal advice the govt got over the deal.The only explanation I can think of is it is humiliating for the givt and May didnt want an informed decision.
I think this is coming down to only 3 options, either they withdraw article 50, which would likely lead a pseudo civil war of the nastiest kind. The ramifications of doing that cannot be underestimated.
or... The above, but then with the promise of a new referendum.
or...A hard Brexit.I think the top 2 are extremely unlikely because it would require parliament to vote that way, and that is very unlikely.
Brexit