Electric Vehicles
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
I think Tesla have left it too late. Now with every other manufacturer coming to the party and releasing vehicles that not only look good, but have build quality we expect, Tesla now have competition. The badge meant early adopter tech head, but that's swamped by two classes of people; badge snobs and the price conscious risk averse.
It is interesting to look at from an economic pov. While there has been a lot of criticism about Tesla's lack of profit, Musk's stated goals of changing the industry - with altruistic themes of saving the planet - has no doubt worked to a degree.
Seems to me that Tesla and SpaceX are about keeping the lights on, and moving forward. Profit is kind of secondary based o performance to date, though I'm sure many investors are waiting for the point where its all just gravy.
The electric truck area is one thing I reckon they'll have trouble with. Light urban EV - particularly trade vehicles, delivery short haul etc is potentially worth a lot, and China recognises that. EDIT: Buses also. Big business.
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If anyone is interested in seeing what's out there, check out Fully Charged Show on YouTube. They tend to get in on what is happening pretty early.
I'm keen to see Rivian get to market, based on this video. The crew cab seems to have a heap of great little features that look perfect for going camping.
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@NTA said in Electric Vehicles:
In any case, there will be detractors who say that it'll never take off in Australia because the distances are too big. But most people aren't driving hundreds of km a day, particularly urban dwellers like my family.
I'd say that the infrastructure will quickly follow consumer demand. Short range (the majority of Australian driving) will create the requirement for charger infrastructure and service stations already exist so a smart person would simply add them there. As quick chargers mature the wait time will be a lunch break.
Add to that the enormous home solar infrastructure in this country and the cost to charge at home can be minimised. The upper middle class will drive this.
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@NTA said in Electric Vehicles:
It is interesting to look at from an economic pov. While there has been a lot of criticism about Tesla's lack of profit, Musk's stated goals of changing the industry - with altruistic themes of saving the planet - has no doubt worked to a degree.
I think ultimately that's how he'll be remembered; a visionary that forced the major manufacturers to adopt quicker.
BTW that Rivian is ugly as sin.
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@NTA how much does the model s go for in aus?
I can’t see the model 3 being close to 50k AUD.
If the model 3 is only 27k GBP here I’d be first on the list.
In the ACT - which is the lowest in value because they don't have Stamp Duty - the lowest cost Model S is about AUD$130K, or about GBP70K drive away at current exchange.
Think you can reserve a Model 3 for GBP1K?
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
BTW that Rivian is ugly as sin.
It'll turn heads - and maybe stomachs
But 5 ton towing, shitloads of torque, swimming rivers, and a big range. Lot to like.
Let's also remember I own an X-Trail - 2012 model aka "Last of the Boxy Ones". So style isn't really top of my list
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@MajorRage if I was in the market for one - and I don't earn nearly enough to consider it - base Model S in Sydney is AUD$135,390 which includes:
$600 registration fee (State)
$12,285 Luxury Car Tax (Federal)
$5,540 Stamp Duty (State)
$490 Compulsory Third Party Insurance (State)
$875 delivery fee from TeslaTop of range 100D with all the toys (full ludicrous mode, autopilot, self-drive premium package etc) is just shy of $189K and the luxury tax almost doubles.
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I know a thing or two about electric buses
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@NTA see, I’ve driven 3 variants of the model s and I just don’t see the pricing. It made sense in Hk where a 530i was around 800k including govt tax, snd the p85d similar. But I over here it’s 45k for the 530i snd 85k for the 85d
The running costs differential simply don’t make up the difference. Especially when I still think the 530i is the better car.
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@MajorRage A friend and I drove a 535d around central europe last year, and it was a bloody good car.
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@Tim said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage A friend and I drove a 535d around central europe last year, and it was a bloody good car.
There aren’t many better than that! I’d buy the 535d over a 530i too but no diesels in Hk so can’t compare
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@NTA see, I’ve driven 3 variants of the model s and I just don’t see the pricing. It made sense in Hk where a 530i was around 800k including govt tax, snd the p85d similar. But I over here it’s 45k for the 530i snd 85k for the 85d
The running costs differential simply don’t make up the difference. Especially when I still think the 530i is the better car.
Agreed. But that's what we don't really get about the Euro car market - your "luxury" cars are cheap as fuck. In those areas I'm surprised there is any electric car activity at all.
Norway makes it work via pre- and post-sale incentives, but most places aren't that concerned about EV uptake yet. Look at BMW's comments about having the majority of their offerings still using petrol or diesel into the 2030s, where a lot of manufacturers are going the other way.
As even plugin hybrids are going to come under increasing scrutiny for emissions, it'll be interesting to see all that play out.
Hybrids like the Prius are a waste of time IMHO. "Self-charging" electric is how they're framing it. FFS...
You'd think - with our vehicle manufacturing industry now goneskis - that the luxury tax would be scrapped here. But I guess like all taxes, its harder to remove than implement.
@mariner4life said in Electric Vehicles:
I know a thing or two about electric buses
We saw zero coverage of that BTW. Has it happened yet?
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@NTA said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@NTA how much does the model s go for in aus?
I can’t see the model 3 being close to 50k AUD.
If the model 3 is only 27k GBP here I’d be first on the list.
In the ACT - which is the lowest in value because they don't have Stamp Duty - the lowest cost Model S is about AUD$130K, or about GBP70K drive away at current exchange.
Think you can reserve a Model 3 for GBP1K?
Have they scrapped stamp duty on cars in the ACT?
EVs get it real easy in London at the moment. No congestion charge (even though they still take up space on the road) and 'free' parking in prime locations by just pretending to charge. Cant see that lasting as the fights for charging spots break out.
Unless I have the need and money for a 'city car' then EVs aren't an option for me. I like the ability to drive long distances too much.
Fuck staying in Taupo after a 4.5 hour drive when I could continue on and reach my destination.
Also (and this is key), they don't sell pies at charging poles. -
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@NTA said in Electric Vehicles:
@Crucial said in Electric Vehicles:
Have they scrapped stamp duty on cars in the ACT?
Not sure as I don't live there. But Tesla don't list it in the price when you build a car on their site, so maybe it is an EV perk?
Google is our friend. EVs are Cat A in this scheme which means zero duty.
The ACT Government is the only jurisdiction in Australia to have a differential duty scheme for new cars, utes and light commercial vehicles to provide an incentive for the purchase of lower operating emission vehicles and a disincentive against the purchase of vehicles with higher operating emissions.
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@NTA said in Electric Vehicles:
We saw zero coverage of that BTW. Has it happened yet?
yep, it's been in service for nearly a month now. And the vehicle is killing it.
My company has given a fully electric bus to a private company in NSW to run. It's the first fully electric bus to run a full, fare-paying service in Australia (there are some in Airports running free shuttles using the other brand available). We also have one running in Auckland, i think that one is doing a city-airport run.
The one in NSW is running a rural route, and it's pretty much the worst route to run an electric bus on, making it a perfect trial. It's a huge amount of highway driving, lots of hills, not a lot of braking, so hard on the battery life. But the results are outstanding. I think the best day so far was 346km, and it returned to the depot with 16% charge.
Initial results show an 80% saving on "fuel" cost.
As for the coverage? Who knows. I was at the full launch at Sydney Uni, and the two politicians spoke as much about the "electric highway" as the bus. And then half the press conference was taken up with pill testing (it was the same day as that Greens MP said she did pills when she was younger, and she was fine), so you know, politics. Also they have little to do with it, and it wasn't their idea, and they aren't providing anything, we are.
So the last month has been spent monitoring the performance, showing it to government departments, and trying to get them to bite the bullet. The change is coming, but it's so very very slow.
The obvious hold up in infrastructure, and cost. The buses themselves are just under twice the price of a diesel. And at this stage the batteries have an 8-10 year life before they need replacing, which is half the cost of the vehicle. Until now it was expected you could run a commuter bus for 15-20 years (which you can tell if you have been in one). We think, with the savings on fuel, and maintenance (the electrics are so basic), then you can still make an economic case for them, but it requires a change in mindset.
The feedback has been unreal, from commuters, drivers, and the operator. So we are enormously confident. The bus is dead silent, it's weird. A fleet of those running around would change the way of life for people in Sydney.
Should be an interesting 12 months.
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Have tesla continued to go the Apple path, and have their own charger, while pretty much every one else has the same?
For instance, the one that charges our bus will charge the Hyundai (which i really liked by the way, i would buy one for my round town vehicle)
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@NTA I noticed the charging station signs on the Taupo to Napier road when I drove it a fortnight ago. Looked like there was a charge station every 35 kms compared to 135 without a fuel stop.
I too think Tesla are fucked now that every major manufacturer is jumping on board to a lesser or greater extent. They just don't have the scale and (if you ignore the drive system) their cars are pretty dated.
As an Audi driver, the one I'm interested in is AIcon. Supposedly gonna have Quattro and a range of 800 kms. My next car will either be something like that or I will simply do without a car entirely and hire when I do a roadie (predicated on retiring into a CBD apartment which is my current plan)
