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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
So hypothetically, if an employer told someone to stop supporting unions publicly, would you be OK with them losing their job over it?
Absolutely.
Like it or not we live in an age where saying the wrong thing via social media can mean losing your job and it’s the case in any number of professions and industries. Why can’t people understand that?
Oh believe me we get it. That is exactly what we are pushing back against. Free speech is not just a law to keep governments in check, it's a value that underpins our (free) society. I'm not going to sit by and say "oh well that's just the consequences today" as radical lefties ensure completely disproportionate punishments are dished out to people that are not PC enough for their liking.
Also for the record, there was absolutely nothing in Folau's contract that forbid him to use social media like this. The only thing they have him on is an apparent breach of the code of conduct - the same code of conduct other players and notably their head coach breach on a weekly basis. The code of conduct also contradicts itself as it states discrimination based on religious views is also forbidden. It is not worth the paper it is written on.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
I can’t believe Samu Kerevi felt compelled to apologize for saying he loved Jesus, during Easter ffs. This is mind-manipulation bullying straight out of George Orwell.
Yeah that's pretty bloody disturbing.
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
So how is excluding christian beliefs and the ability to express those believes inclusive? This action is the very opposite of inclusive. And wasnt Falous post all about having a squeaky clean life? Or was it not the right type of squeaky clean life? Are QANTAS and ARU now the arbiters of what a squeaky clean life is?
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It’s not the end of the story — at all.
I think Israel is being a silly boy here. I am an atheist and he tells me I’m going to Hell, a scary imaginary place I don’t believe in. But I respect his religious convictions, the same as I used to respect Iceman who would never play rugby on a Sunday. Misguided, certainly, but I respected them all the same. The fact is, whether we rugby fans like it or not, some of our fave players have higher priorities, and religion is one of them. When you are telling religious people to keep their mouths shut and know their role, that does not serve a society that promotes values of tolerance and diversity and inclusivity. What it does is expose them as massive frauds. This isn’t simply a labour matter. This is about the entire culture, and if you think Folau stepping over a line is the “end of the story,” you are sadly mistaken.
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@Siam said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Stargazer hate speech in a legal sense, like the hate speech that you just posted about their not actually having brains?
See how slippery this slope is?
You know what expressions are, don't you? You generally don't use them literally ...
I have not posted about people literally "not actually having brains". I've used an expression; an expression that means "people being smart". i used that in the context of people being smart not to do something that could get them fired. The opposite of that is people doing something that is not so smart, like doing something that can get them fired (while they want to keep their job). That's not hate speech; not by a long shot.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
I can’t believe Samu Kerevi felt compelled to apologize for saying he loved Jesus, during Easter ffs. This is mind-manipulation bullying straight out of George Orwell.
Reading what Kerevi actually wrote, it reads more as a dig at the media than a real apology. Obviously, they blew it up as if it was.
..
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Yup, it reads just like an apology, because that’s exactly what it is. I’m not a mind-reader here, but if there’s any subtext, yeah, he’s cleverly giving the media their pound of flesh, because he’s not so foolish as to know that scalps is what they’re after. If he’s skeptical of their motives, it’s because he’d have to be an ignorant clod not to be.
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So Kerevi, Alaalatoa and Tupou all publicly support Folau. RA needs to tread carefully, it's one thing not making the semis at the RWC. It's another coming dead last - the sport is already struggling over there.
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@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
So Kerevi, Alaalatoa and Tupou all publicly support Folau. RA needs to tread carefully, it's one thing not making the semis at the RWC. It's another coming dead last - the sport is already struggling over there.
You say that likes it’s a bad thing
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
What makes Folau different to this is that religion is protected, and titty pics aren't. The issue is that they are genuinely held religious beliefs - and international human rights pitch those directly against the damage done by being a homophobe.
Interestingly, if he'd posted solely on homosexuals without the cover of being Christian, he'd not have a leg to stand on. It's the religion that makes this a confounding factor.
Also, I'm with you if you want to get titty pic distribution protected as a human right
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
I believe he posted while on PAID leave from the Waratahs (which he is pictured wearing on his Twitter acc)
So that maccas guy only has to wait for his shift to end and he’s free to say what he wants there?
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@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
If a Mcdonalds employee gave a sermon every tine he served a customer a shitty Big Mac or kids happy meal, shouted all gays will burn in hell.
How long will he hang onto his job for?How fucken dare you.
Big Macs are so 1980’s -
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
If a Mcdonalds employee gave a sermon every tine he served a customer a shitty Big Mac or kids happy meal, shouted all gays will burn in hell.
How long will he hang onto his job for?How fucken dare you.
Big Macs are so 1980’sThe 80s were also nourishing and tasty.
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@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
I believe he posted while on PAID leave from the Waratahs (which he is pictured wearing on his Twitter acc)
So he wasn't at work?
So that maccas guy only has to wait for his shift to end and he’s free to say what he wants there?
What part of the location are you having difficulty grasping?
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
FIIK.
Could you argue that his public profile means he's always "at work"?
You'd think so, otherwise anything goes outside the training paddock, team meetings, and game day.
But wait: what times on game day?
I wonder - all these people defending Folau's right to free speech... would they be as staunch in defending him if he was a Muslim?
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
Sharing titty pics around the workplace would constitute sexual harassment and would be dealt with as such, and can be taken to the Employment Court to resolve. That is not the same thing as posting religious beliefs on your personal social media account. Not even close.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
Oh good someone else who wants to use the lame consequences angle...and put free speech in quotes. Saying there are consequences is just a truism and adds nothing to the discussion but an example of facile thinking. People are debating the consequence not saying there isnt any , there is a consequence to every action. So facile statements saying people should be prepared for consequences adds nothing of value.
And so what if free speech is used quite often by shit people to say shit things. What is a shit thing and who is a shit person is entirely in the eye of the beholder. I think your post was shit speech (and vice versa I am sure) should I delete your post and threaten you that if you disagree with me again on free speech you will be banned?
No, of course not. That would be a ludicrous and all my lame justifications of 'you were warned' and knew the consequences wouldn't change that me trying to silence a valid and genuine held opinion that didnt contain personally targeted abuse is a dick move. And before you claim I delete your posts, I dont .
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions