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Closing in on 2 million.
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Could be an interesting poll result.
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@Rembrandt I just went through it ... summary
Should Folau be sacked? 54% Yes, 46% No
Should Folau self fund his legal case? 66% Yes, 34% No - this blew my mind ...
Did You Donate? 82% No, 11% Yes, 6% Donated elsewhere
Should Go Fund Me have been removed .. 54% Yes 46% No
Should Maria face sanction ... 77% No, 22% Yes - Disappointed in this one honestly
Do you worry about religous freedoms ... 35% Yes 30% No 33% Not Religous
Do you support gay rights .. 79% Yes -
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage the lgbt groups I follow are pushing it hard at the moment, I imagine it'll cross over to the Christian groups soon, might get a good average in a few hours.
was almost 60,000 when I did it, so I wouldn't expect the results to change too much.
Depending on your reasons for following them (agree with, worried about) how do you think they will change questions 2 and 5?
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This is getting so weird.
Somehow the term 'religious freedom' is not being challenged at all.
I would guess that a vast majority of people are more than happy for people to have the right to choose a faith and not be discriminated against because of that choice.
ie: you can follow whatever faith you want and we won't let that affect your employability, your other human rights etc and nor will we tolerate others singling out your faith in a discriminatory way.What is different is when that right is extended to a licence to discriminate against others based on aspects that are not their choice ie race, disability, sexuality...
Religious freedom DOES NOT MEAN a carte blanch to behave like a dick. You are all free to think what you like but don't preach that shit into the public domain where it will affect others.
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I am surprised by those who think that the ARU having more support than Falou as win. It is a Pyrrhic victory. Congrats you only pissed off 40% of the country. *golf clap *
They were not rooted either way. There was an easy out. Just a bland condemnation and drop it. Done months ago.
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@MajorRage You're right, didn't notice the numbers done. It's at about 90k now and not a lot of difference. Disconcerting about the Turia result, hoping that would be a lot lower as that's a pretty extreme view. Followed the main pages for the yes and no campaigns for the same sex marriage referendum, was interesting times.
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt I just went through it ... summary
Should Folau be sacked? 54% Yes, 46% No
Should Folau self fund his legal case? 66% Yes, 34% No - this blew my mind ...
Did You Donate? 82% No, 11% Yes, 6% Donated elsewhere
Should Go Fund Me have been removed .. 54% Yes 46% No
Should Maria face sanction ... 77% No, 22% Yes - Disappointed in this one honestly
Do you worry about religous freedoms ... 35% Yes 30% No 33% Not Religous
Do you support gay rights .. 79% YesThat's a disturbingly high percentage who want Maria to face sanctions.
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Here's an example in the UK - an old disabled fella has been sacked for breaching social media policy because he shared a Billy Connolly video mocking religion.
Are people seriously OK with employers sacking people like this?
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1144725/asda-billy-connolly-sketch-islam-christianity-facebook/amp
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt I just went through it ... summary
Should Folau be sacked? 54% Yes, 46% No
Should Folau self fund his legal case? 66% Yes, 34% No - this blew my mind ...
Did You Donate? 82% No, 11% Yes, 6% Donated elsewhere
Should Go Fund Me have been removed .. 54% Yes 46% No
Should Maria face sanction ... 77% No, 22% Yes - Disappointed in this one honestly
Do you worry about religous freedoms ... 35% Yes 30% No 33% Not Religous
Do you support gay rights .. 79% YesThat's a disturbingly high percentage who want Maria to face sanctions.
One could argue the same about 'Do you support gay rights?' I suppose, although I personally selected 'yes' I could see the argument for saying 'no I support human rights' ie rights regardless of sexual orientation. Interestingly Maria isn't even mentioned on FB comments so I don't know where the outrage for her is coming from. Maybe journalists are feverishly voting to try and create a story.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
What is different is when that right is extended to a licence to discriminate against others based on aspects that are not their choice ie race, disability, sexuality...
This is the breakdown. No one has been able to point out exactly what the discriminatory act from Folau was. He didn't single anyone out, he didn't say he refused to play with anyone who fell on that list, and based on his previous posts/quotes on the matter it seemed to be from a place of "we are all sinners". We are talking about a sport where a member of SAANZAR is picking players on skin colour, yet the descrimination we are worried about is a guy's personal opinion is that homosexuality is immoral? Really?
To most religious (or really simply personal) freedom means the ability to live ones life by a moral code free from discrimination action by others, particularly government and commercial entities.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt I just went through it ... summary
Should Folau be sacked? 54% Yes, 46% No
Should Folau self fund his legal case? 66% Yes, 34% No - this blew my mind ...
Did You Donate? 82% No, 11% Yes, 6% Donated elsewhere
Should Go Fund Me have been removed .. 54% Yes 46% No
Should Maria face sanction ... 77% No, 22% Yes - Disappointed in this one honestly
Do you worry about religous freedoms ... 35% Yes 30% No 33% Not Religous
Do you support gay rights .. 79% YesThat's a disturbingly high percentage who want Maria to face sanctions.
One could argue the same about 'Do you support gay rights?' I suppose, although I personally selected 'yes' I could see the argument for saying 'no I support human rights' ie rights regardless of sexual orientation. Interestingly Maria isn't even mentioned on FB comments so I don't know where the outrage for her is coming from. Maybe journalists are feverishly voting to try and create a story.
For sure. It would be interesting to know why they voted that way. Hard to believe that many people don't want gays to have rights. Maybe they conflate it with gay pride or something like that? Connection to the gay marriage debate?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
For sure. It would be interesting to know why they voted that way. Hard to believe that many people don't want gays to have rights. Maybe they conflate it with gay pride or something like that? Connection to the gay marriage debate?
In the context of the issue they likely conflate with the right to sack/arrest/ostracize those who make comments similar to Israel's as part of those "rights".
A similar result would likely come out in regards to indigenous rights in Australia. Almost all of mainstream Australia support this in general, although many would answer 'no' if they believed that included the most extreme demands/recommendations.
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@rotated said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
What is different is when that right is extended to a licence to discriminate against others based on aspects that are not their choice ie race, disability, sexuality...
This is the breakdown. No one has been able to point out exactly what the discriminatory act from Folau was. He didn't single anyone out, he didn't say he refused to play with anyone who fell on that list, and based on his previous posts/quotes on the matter it seemed to be from a place of "we are all sinners". We are talking about a sport where a member of SAANZAR is picking players on skin colour, yet the descrimination we are worried about is a guy's personal opinion is that homosexuality is immoral? Really?
To most religious (or really simply personal) freedom means the ability to live ones life by a moral code free from discrimination action by others, particularly government and commercial entities.
True. Because he is declaring that here are a bunch of things that aren't 'best behaviour' and those that do them are bad in my eyes. Most of his list are choices and he is saying 'I think you are making a bad choice'. Sexuality is not a choice so he is discriminating against homosexuals by grouping them into that scenario.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
True. Because he is declaring that here are a bunch of things that aren't 'best behaviour' and those that do them are bad in my eyes. Most of his list are choices and he is saying 'I think you are making a bad choice'. Sexuality is not a choice so he is discriminating against homosexuals by grouping them into that scenario.
To be very clear I do not support his opinion on this...
But again I don't think he is persecuting the orientation or naturally occurring feeling or attraction - simply the act. The post called for restraint from various acts irregardless of orientation or preclusion including adultery and pre-marital sex. So from his perspective everyone is tempted by varying sexual impulses and those need to be controlled.
Obviously he draws no distinction between them and I and most others do as there are compelling moral arguments against say, adultery, where there isn't for homosexuality.
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@rotated said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
True. Because he is declaring that here are a bunch of things that aren't 'best behaviour' and those that do them are bad in my eyes. Most of his list are choices and he is saying 'I think you are making a bad choice'. Sexuality is not a choice so he is discriminating against homosexuals by grouping them into that scenario.
To be very clear I do not support his opinion on this...
But again I don't think he is persecuting the orientation or naturally occurring feeling or attraction - simply the act. The post called for restraint from various acts irregardless of orientation or preclusion including adultery and pre-marital sex. So from his perspective everyone is tempted by varying sexual impulses and those need to be controlled.
Obviously he draws no distinction between them and I and most others do as there are compelling moral arguments against say, adultery, where there isn't for homosexuality.
You are allowed to be gay but precluded from having sexual relationships?
Again, that sends a strong message that 'I think you are different to the norm' = 'You are not normal'= 'discrimination'
In all of Folau's answers and explanations after the event he has tried to point out that he means well and is trying to help people. Help them from what? Being what they are? He needs to understand that if he chooses to believe something that is clearly wrong and insulting to a group of people he shouldn't air those thoughts.. It is common courtesy.
Do you walk into a room and loudly declare 'I think fat people are really unattractive'? It is your free right to think that and even your free right to say it BUT it isn't socially acceptable AND if you are representing your employer at the time you would probably expect repercussions.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions