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@Rembrandt What would you do differently?
Where has the government gone wrong? How should things change? What things have they done are you extremely critical of?
It's post after post of these articles from the media from you, and I'd like to see some of your solutions.
This is not me having a go. This is me wanting to know what our solutions are, instead of your criticisms.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Rembrandt What would you do differently?
Where has the government gone wrong? How should things change? What things have they done are you extremely critical of?
It's post after post of these articles from the media from you, and I'd like to see some of your solutions.
This is not me having a go. This is me wanting to know what our solutions are, instead of your criticisms.
Decriminalize hate speech is the most obvious one. Then govt funding of the BBC goes
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Rembrandt What would you do differently?
Where has the government gone wrong? How should things change? What things have they done are you extremely critical of?
It's post after post of these articles from the media from you, and I'd like to see some of your solutions.
This is not me having a go. This is me wanting to know what our solutions are, instead of your criticisms.
The first thing I would do is ditch the term 'Islamophobia', especially with regards to hate speech laws but also careless politicians bandying that word around every time Islam comes under criticism. That term has essentially pushed blasphemy laws in through the back door. It's a stupid term that is used to shut down valid criticism of Islam, which also leads to resentment of the Muslim community as people feel they are getting special treatment.
The phrase 'anti-Muslim bigotry' is a far more accurate description of what should not be allowed with regards to discrimination, but that is getting lumped in with valid criticism of Islam which has really muddied the water.
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@MajorRage Good questions. It was more of a reflection on how messed up things are but thinking hypothetically if I were king of Britain:
As Baron mentioned allowing speech would be a big help. That would mean resolving that existing law that puts people in prison for telling a bad joke. Having the police bust into a family home to arrest a 15 year old and put him on a deradicalisation course for posting a factually accurate, funny, but offensive meme only has a bad outcome for society. Stop blasphamy laws in their tracks.
It's authoritarian but I don't see any other way around this, face coverings need to be banned in public areas. British culture relies on face to face conversations and it is just another barrier to integration. In addition on top of the masked up antifa type groups we are also now seeing acid attacks by people dressed up in burkas.
There needs to be a campaign talking about the amazing things about British culture and history. Almost no one, certainly not students, even have a clue that Britain actually at their own cost put an end to world wide slavery.
There needs to be an investigation into mosque and Islamic school funding and those that are being sponsored by foreign countries, particularly those of an extremist sect, need to have their funding halted, totally fine to self fund. It took well over a year for any mainstream investigation into the mosque associated with the Manchester attack. TR revealed their extremist links within a couple weeks.
Britain needs out of the EU and fast. These delays undermine the concept of Britain being a democracy. Britain needs both total control of its borders and also its laws. There also needs to be immigration reform, numbers coming in are unsustainable, they also need to ensure those coming in are culturally compatible with British values. Preference should go to English speakers from commonwealth countries. I remember being shocked during my final citizenship interview at just how few people spoke English in the waiting room, the whole process was delayed hours because of the problems this gave staff. Migrants should also have a delay before they can access NHS services, perhaps qualify as a resident first and to as part of your visa you should have to show evidence of purchased private health insurance. (Refugee policy will be seperate from this.)
There needs to be an investigation into Islamic radicalisation in the nation's prisons, UKIP put out a policy to address this, it may not be the best but at least they aren't burying their heads in the sand until even more people are radicalised and others massacred.
There needs to be prosecutions for police, social services and politicians who covered up, allowed and participated in the rape of thousands of working class children. It's great that the perpetrators are finally getting done but that is only half of the horrific crime that has been committed over the last 30 years.
There has been some discussions on BBC bias, I'm of the opinion that outside of a few exceptions the bias is rife. This needs to be investigated, BBC have a choice either resolve bias issues or lose government funding and go at it privately.
In relation to the freespeech business, scale back these well funded online police teams who are prioritising mean tweets over actual rape, murder and theft. Slap Khan over the back of the head and tell him to focus on his f'en job of stopping London becoming a shithole rather than playing world politics.
Scale back the lunacy of the British police and army. It's fine to support gay people but you don't need to dress up as clowns and you certainly should not be gyrating on street corners. Bring back meritocracy to the institutions. You should not be hired or promoted based on your skin colour, sexuality or religion. You also should not be on the front line in the police or military if you are 4ft 9inchs and cant do pullups or run around the block at a decent pace.
Apply the rule of law equally over all citizens. This means even if someone as apparently horrible as TR is assaulted you prosecute the bloke and not offer to be his taxi service. Police should also not be escorting hundreds of Islamic extremists to a council estate to attack British citizens..and if they do then heads should roll (figuratively speaking)
Free speech needs to be adequately separated from 'direct call to action and incitement to violence' these are illegal and people should be prosecuted even if they happen to be politicians, Guardian reporters or academics.
Female genital mutilation should be prosecuted, the fact that there has only been a single successful prosecution for thousands of cases is disgusting. I'm no fan of male mutilation either but one step at a time.
There needs to be an investigation into the teaching of radical gender theory in school curriculum. Kids shouldn't be expelled from high school for stating such hate facts as "there are 2 genders" and the sudden explosion in teens and preteens who need their bits cut off and made sterile for the sake of diversity seems to be more of reminiscent of child abuse than a societal good.
If social media is the new town square then the UK government needs to treat these giants as either platform's (who only need to take steps to ensure their content is legal) or publishers (where they can choose what content is allowed but can be held liable for it). Not just the best of both worlds. In addition pressure needs to be put on them to enforce their policies evenly. Ban 'white nationaists'? Sure fine but that means you also have to ban 'black nationalists' too. This very one sided social media policy has created echo chambers hidden away on alternative platforms, I've looked at some of the more moderate groups and we are talking about daily videos being shared of stabbings, beatings and rape..and you can guess what people will be stereotyping about the perpetrators. These folk for the most part are now isolated and won't be getting a fair perceptiom of society, you also have some pretty bad folk lurking keen to recruit
British values and culture are what helped create some of the most free, safest, stable, tolerant and wealthy countries in the world. By just upholding and prioritising these values a huge amount of wind would be taken out the sails of potential british extremists.
Anyway not well researched, probably full of holes and a whole lot easier to criticise than to put in place concrete solutions that don't have worse unintended consequences in the long run.
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@Rembrandt said in British Politics:
@MajorRage Good questions. It was more of a reflection on how messed up things are but thinking hypothetically if I were king of Britain:
As Baron mentioned allowing speech would be a big help. That would mean resolving that existing law that puts people in prison for telling a bad joke. Having the police bust into a family home to arrest a 15 year old and put him on a deradicalisation course for posting a factually accurate, funny, but offensive meme only has a bad outcome for society. Stop blasphamy laws in their tracks.
It's authoritarian but I don't see any other way around this, face coverings need to be banned in public areas. British culture relies on face to face conversations and it is just another barrier to integration. In addition on top of the masked up antifa type groups we are also now seeing acid attacks by people dressed up in burkas.
There needs to be a campaign talking about the amazing things about British culture and history. Almost no one, certainly not students, even have a clue that Britain actually at their own cost put an end to world wide slavery.
There needs to be an investigation into mosque and Islamic school funding and those that are being sponsored by foreign countries, particularly those of an extremist sect, need to have their funding halted, totally fine to self fund. It took well over a year for any mainstream investigation into the mosque associated with the Manchester attack. TR revealed their extremist links within a couple weeks.
Britain needs out of the EU and fast. These delays undermine the concept of Britain being a democracy. Britain needs both total control of its borders and also its laws. There also needs to be immigration reform, numbers coming in are unsustainable, they also need to ensure those coming in are culturally compatible with British values. Preference should go to English speakers from commonwealth countries. I remember being shocked during my final citizenship interview at just how few people spoke English in the waiting room, the whole process was delayed hours because of the problems this gave staff. Migrants should also have a delay before they can access NHS services, perhaps qualify as a resident first and to as part of your visa you should have to show evidence of purchased private health insurance. (Refugee policy will be seperate from this.)
There needs to be an investigation into Islamic radicalisation in the nation's prisons, UKIP put out a policy to address this, it may not be the best but at least they aren't burying their heads in the sand until even more people are radicalised and others massacred.
There needs to be prosecutions for police, social services and politicians who covered up, allowed and participated in the rape of thousands of working class children. It's great that the perpetrators are finally getting done but that is only half of the horrific crime that has been committed over the last 30 years.
There has been some discussions on BBC bias, I'm of the opinion that outside of a few exceptions the bias is rife. This needs to be investigated, BBC have a choice either resolve bias issues or lose government funding and go at it privately.
In relation to the freespeech business, scale back these well funded online police teams who are prioritising mean tweets over actual rape, murder and theft. Slap Khan over the back of the head and tell him to focus on his f'en job of stopping London becoming a shithole rather than playing world politics.
Scale back the lunacy of the British police and army. It's fine to support gay people but you don't need to dress up as clowns and you certainly should not be gyrating on street corners. Bring back meritocracy to the institutions. You should not be hired or promoted based on your skin colour, sexuality or religion. You also should not be on the front line in the police or military if you are 4ft 9inchs and cant do pullups or run around the block at a decent pace.
Apply the rule of law equally over all citizens. This means even if someone as apparently horrible as TR is assaulted you prosecute the bloke and not offer to be his taxi service. Police should also not be escorting hundreds of Islamic extremists to a council estate to attack British citizens..and if they do then heads should roll (figuratively speaking)
Free speech needs to be adequately separated from 'direct call to action and incitement to violence' these are illegal and people should be prosecuted even if they happen to be politicians, Guardian reporters or academics.
Female genital mutilation should be prosecuted, the fact that there has only been a single successful prosecution for thousands of cases is disgusting. I'm no fan of male mutilation either but one step at a time.
There needs to be an investigation into the teaching of radical gender theory in school curriculum. Kids shouldn't be expelled from high school for stating such hate facts as "there are 2 genders" and the sudden explosion in teens and preteens who need their bits cut off and made sterile for the sake of diversity seems to be more of reminiscent of child abuse than a societal good.
If social media is the new town square then the UK government needs to treat these giants as either platform's (who only need to take steps to ensure their content is legal) or publishers (where they can choose what content is allowed but can be held liable for it). Not just the best of both worlds. In addition pressure needs to be put on them to enforce their policies evenly. Ban 'white nationaists'? Sure fine but that means you also have to ban 'black nationalists' too. This very one sided social media policy has created echo chambers hidden away on alternative platforms, I've looked at some of the more moderate groups and we are talking about daily videos being shared of stabbings, beatings and rape..and you can guess what people will be stereotyping about the perpetrators. These folk for the most part are now isolated and won't be getting a fair perceptiom of society, you also have some pretty bad folk lurking keen to recruit
British values and culture are what helped create some of the most free, safest, stable, tolerant and wealthy countries in the world. By just upholding and prioritising these values a huge amount of wind would be taken out the sails of potential british extremists.
Anyway not well researched, probably full of holes and a whole lot easier to criticise than to put in place concrete solutions that don't have worse unintended consequences in the long run.
Thanks for responding. Some good points, Some I don’t agree with. I’m away now but will try and get some time on a pc to offer my thoughts on all and open up a real British Politics debate when I’m back in Blighty at the end of the week
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Tis only a single poll but the red menace is down to 4th. Conservatives with a narrow lead over Brexit and the Lib Dems stealing Labour's thunder. I wonder which will come first, a leadership change or a change of policy to become a firm 'remain' party.
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@Rembrandt said in British Politics:
@MajorRage Good questions. It was more of a reflection on how messed up things are but thinking hypothetically if I were king of Britain:
As Baron mentioned allowing speech would be a big help. That would mean resolving that existing law that puts people in prison for telling a bad joke. Having the police bust into a family home to arrest a 15 year old and put him on a deradicalisation course for posting a factually accurate, funny, but offensive meme only has a bad outcome for society. Stop blasphamy laws in their tracks.
Although I agree, I certainly think there is more to it than what is read. A seemingly random visit from the police for a twitter post just doesn't make sense, or seem real. I tend to think in most of these situations, the police had received warnings on the people for various other reasons beforehand before it gets to the point I did.
Perhaps I'm naive, I just don't know.
It's authoritarian but I don't see any other way around this, face coverings need to be banned in public areas. British culture relies on face to face conversations and it is just another barrier to integration. In addition on top of the masked up antifa type groups we are also now seeing acid attacks by people dressed up in burkas.
I don't agree with this for general life. That is not a culture of acceptance.
However, I do think if you are going to be involved in official marches / protests, then you lose your right to cover your face up. How on earth this would be implemented tho without backlash ... god knows.
There needs to be a campaign talking about the amazing things about British culture and history. Almost no one, certainly not students, even have a clue that Britain actually at their own cost put an end to world wide slavery.
I've always thought Poms were pretty good at patting themselves on the back for their own past accomplishments!
There needs to be an investigation into mosque and Islamic school funding and those that are being sponsored by foreign countries, particularly those of an extremist sect, need to have their funding halted, totally fine to self fund. It took well over a year for any mainstream investigation into the mosque associated with the Manchester attack. TR revealed their extremist links within a couple weeks.
Agree in theory, but no comment on the TR assertion.
Britain needs out of the EU and fast. These delays undermine the concept of Britain being a democracy. Britain needs both total control of its borders and also its laws. There also needs to be immigration reform, numbers coming in are unsustainable, they also need to ensure those coming in are culturally compatible with British values. Preference should go to English speakers from commonwealth countries. I remember being shocked during my final citizenship interview at just how few people spoke English in the waiting room, the whole process was delayed hours because of the problems this gave staff. Migrants should also have a delay before they can access NHS services, perhaps qualify as a resident first and to as part of your visa you should have to show evidence of purchased private health insurance. (Refugee policy will be seperate from this.)
As things drag on, I tend to switch more to leave than remain. But not no-deal, that's just idiotic. As for the immigration policies, a lot of these are in play already. And how do you define a refugee?
There needs to be an investigation into Islamic radicalisation in the nation's prisons, UKIP put out a policy to address this, it may not be the best but at least they aren't burying their heads in the sand until even more people are radicalised and others massacred.
Never really looked at prisons so can't offer comment. Can't really see the underbelly of British low lives in prison being overrun by Islam tho myself.
There needs to be prosecutions for police, social services and politicians who covered up, allowed and participated in the rape of thousands of working class children. It's great that the perpetrators are finally getting done but that is only half of the horrific crime that has been committed over the last 30 years.
Yes agree. Anybody who was involved in covering this up, turning blind eyes, AND potentially obstructing justice here should be taken to task. Not just those that the state don't like.
There has been some discussions on BBC bias, I'm of the opinion that outside of a few exceptions the bias is rife. This needs to be investigated, BBC have a choice either resolve bias issues or lose government funding and go at it privately.
I don't agree with this myself. I think you could easily point out political persuasions from BBC programming across the entire spectrum.
In relation to the freespeech business, scale back these well funded online police teams who are prioritising mean tweets over actual rape, murder and theft. Slap Khan over the back of the head and tell him to focus on his f'en job of stopping London becoming a shithole rather than playing world politics.
I fucking hate Khan so anything negative about him, I obviously agree with. So I'm 100% on board with you here.
Scale back the lunacy of the British police and army. It's fine to support gay people but you don't need to dress up as clowns and you certainly should not be gyrating on street corners. Bring back meritocracy to the institutions. You should not be hired or promoted based on your skin colour, sexuality or religion. You also should not be on the front line in the police or military if you are 4ft 9inchs and cant do pullups or run around the block at a decent pace.
As per previous comments, I agree but don't think it's as bad as you say. If a police department releases 10-25 comments per day via it's mediums, and then does a couple in support of LBGT etc, it's not a big deal for me. There are plenty of people who try to divide in this world, so a bit of effort here and there to promote inclusivity doesn't bother me.
Apply the rule of law equally over all citizens. This means even if someone as apparently horrible as TR is assaulted you prosecute the bloke and not offer to be his taxi service. Police should also not be escorting hundreds of Islamic extremists to a council estate to attack British citizens..and if they do then heads should roll (figuratively speaking)
We disagree on this as free speech allows protesting of protestors / campaigners.
Free speech needs to be adequately separated from 'direct call to action and incitement to violence' these are illegal and people should be prosecuted even if they happen to be politicians, Guardian reporters or academics.
Free speech cannot be separated for rule application on those you agree with vs those you disagree with. This applies to everybody.
Female genital mutilation should be prosecuted, the fact that there has only been a single successful prosecution for thousands of cases is disgusting. I'm no fan of male mutilation either but one step at a time.
No comment from me - not enough effort looking into it.
There needs to be an investigation into the teaching of radical gender theory in school curriculum. Kids shouldn't be expelled from high school for stating such hate facts as "there are 2 genders" and the sudden explosion in teens and preteens who need their bits cut off and made sterile for the sake of diversity seems to be more of reminiscent of child abuse than a societal good.
Yeah, thats fucked up. I'm on board with you here.
If social media is the new town square then the UK government needs to treat these giants as either platform's (who only need to take steps to ensure their content is legal) or publishers (where they can choose what content is allowed but can be held liable for it). Not just the best of both worlds. In addition pressure needs to be put on them to enforce their policies evenly. Ban 'white nationaists'? Sure fine but that means you also have to ban 'black nationalists' too. This very one sided social media policy has created echo chambers hidden away on alternative platforms, I've looked at some of the more moderate groups and we are talking about daily videos being shared of stabbings, beatings and rape..and you can guess what people will be stereotyping about the perpetrators. These folk for the most part are now isolated and won't be getting a fair perceptiom of society, you also have some pretty bad folk lurking keen to recruit
I'm absolutely all over people behind held responsible for what they say on social media.
British values and culture are what helped create some of the most free, safest, stable, tolerant and wealthy countries in the world. By just upholding and prioritising these values a huge amount of wind would be taken out the sails of potential british extremists.
And drinking beer. Don't forget about that.
Anyway not well researched, probably full of holes and a whole lot easier to criticise than to put in place concrete solutions that don't have worse unintended consequences in the long run.
It's a great post mate. I don't have to agree with it to recognise that.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Rembrandt said in British Politics:
There has been some discussions on BBC bias, I'm of the opinion that outside of a few exceptions the bias is rife. This needs to be investigated, BBC have a choice either resolve bias issues or lose government funding and go at it privately.
I don't agree with this myself. I think you could easily point out political persuasions from BBC programming across the entire spectrum.
And so after writing this, of course, the BBC then lets me down. Watching new top gear last night, they were in Borneo / Brunei and felt the need to explain they were only airing the Brunei part out of respect for the Gurkha's, due to the law change there around homosexuality.
Then at the end they had the cars painted rainbow colours and bought into the studio.
Could you imagine Clarkson, May & Hammond doing that? Not in a million years!
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@Bones said in British Politics:
@MajorRage it's hard enough imagining the new hosts doing it! Might we see Stokes on soon, what with the cricket connection?
The problem the new hosts have is they have essentially stuck to the same format, but don't have quite the right mix. Flintoff & McGuiness shouldn't be hosting a motoring show. Despite all the mucking around, you could always tell that the core of Clarkson, May & Hammond was actually motoring journalism.
Harris is the only one who has that. And to be fair to him, he's improved a lot and is a lot more relaxed now.
I reckon there's half a chance of Gabby Logan presenting it shortly.
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Good...but also this degeneracy..
Gay pride is basically killing itself. It's no longer about accepting homosexuality its about being as depraved as possible in public because you feel like it and its bigotry to say anything different.
I used to laugh at conservative Christians and their slippery slope arguments...well is open zoophilia and pedophilia really that far away now?
Gay conservatives really need to take control of this madness or things are not going to end well.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Bones said in British Politics:
@MajorRage it's hard enough imagining the new hosts doing it! Might we see Stokes on soon, what with the cricket connection?
The problem the new hosts have is they have essentially stuck to the same format, but don't have quite the right mix. Flintoff & McGuiness shouldn't be hosting a motoring show. Despite all the mucking around, you could always tell that the core of Clarkson, May & Hammond was actually motoring journalism.
Harris is the only one who has that. And to be fair to him, he's improved a lot and is a lot more relaxed now.
I reckon there's half a chance of Gabby Logan presenting it shortly.
Not a previous fan, watched it in the background if it was on.
Not a petrol head, but admire quality engineering and sleek lines.
Have to say I'm hooked.
Watched the first, got the rest on catch-up.
Pissed myself laughing and was awestruck by the Ethiopia feature.
Big difference between genuinely funny men presenting a car show and car men trying to be funny.
I know who I'd rather have a night on the piss with.
More please.
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@MiketheSnow Fair enough. The show has clearly morphed from being motoring to entertainment, so if you aren't a petrol head, then your view is probably expected!
What people find funny is very subjective.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow Fair enough. The show has clearly morphed from being motoring to entertainment, so if you aren't a petrol head, then your view is probably expected!
What people find funny is very subjective.
Indeed.
Out of interest do you watch the old boys Amazon show?
If so, same, better, worse?
British Politics