TRC: Pumas v All Blacks
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@Victor-Meldrew yeah him and Cane swapped. Cane missed a sitter and Reece put in a dominant tackle.
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The problem at six: Fifita’s last chance?
Vaea Fifita was perhaps lucky to get the first opportunity in the 6 jersey, as Frizell’s injury saw him left at home. Overwhelmingly, TSF posters appear pretty disappointed with his effort against Argentina, in the All Blacks lucky win in Buenos Aires overnight.
They are right.
After the first game of the season, it seems that the six question remains unanswered. He seems to remain a coach favorite, but this should be his last test this year.
The Stats
Rugbypass stats indicate a mixed effort in comparison to the other loose forwards out there. In 57 minutes, he made 6 tackles, missed 1, and gained one turnover. With the ball, he ran 5 times for 7 metres, beating one defender. In the line out, he won three off our throws, and stole one. He also conceded one turnover and two penalties. Overall, he was equally highest with Retallick as a line out target, but may have lost ground to key competitors in some key areas (NB: ESPN stats have him only making one tackle and missing one).
To start, by comparison his opposite number Matera ran for 40 metres off 12 carries, with one offload and one defender beaten, while making 9 tackles with one miss, one line out won, and the same number of penalties conceded (NB: ESPN stats have him making nine tackles and missing four).
Against the starting AB loosies – who it should be mentioned both played 80 - Fifita also looks to be less involved: Ardie took 31 metres from 8 runs, beat one defender, gained one turnover, and did not concede any turnovers nor penalties while making 11 tackles with no misses. He was, admittedly, probably our best player out there though. The other starter, Sam Cane, had one terrible dropped ball (and a total of three turnovers conceded), but was very involved with 17 tackles (leading the team), two misses, and two penalties conceded. Cane had one offload and ran 6 times for 31 metres (NB: ESPN stats have Ardie making 24 metres off 9 runs and Cane making 24 off 6).
Perhaps even worse, key competitors (Hemopo, Jacobson) came on and each played relatively well: In 23 minutes, Hemopo had 3 metres off one carry, with one offload, five tackles and no misses. In the same amount of time, Jacobson got quite stuck in on defence – making 8 tackles with no misses, while winning two line outs. He conceded one turnover but no penalties, and had no running metres. Noticeably, Jacobson made some pretty hard (NB: ESPN stats have Hemopo making 3 tackles, with Jacobson at 9 tackles).
So, putting things together, what do the numbers indicate? Firstly, to me, I wonder what his role is? Looking at the numbers, he appears to be doing the Read role - he is used as the primary line out option, is not the main ball runner (Ardie), and is not the primary tackler (Cane). Is he the main cleaner and player making high impact tackles? Jacobson jumped out with his work there after coming on, and Hemopo has some runs in the bank on that front too. So, I focused primarily on his off the ball duties in my re-watch. To what extent is Fifita involved? After being replaced, to what extent was Jacobson involved?
The re-watch
Fifita
2:32: Wins lineout jumping at four
3:08: Stays out on the left and passes to Barrett then gets cleaned out trying to join the ruck – poor clean as Smith gets put under pressure
4:01: Third player to the ruck as Abs head back for a kick
4:26: Second ineffective tackler, doesn’t roll, and gets penalized
7:17: Attacks their lineout
11:06: High tackle and is penalized – then takes no part in any of the defence against the Argie attack on our line – is also unseen in the next break out which leads to a penalty
15:10: Wins the lineout at four
16:19: Good lift for BBBR as we win the line out and attack
16:30: Sort of attends one breakdown then is the support of Ardie who takes about 8 metres as we attack their line.
16:52: Cleans a breakdown, then gets up and receives the ball. Is tackled immediately for no gain. As we were under advantage, Gardner awards the penalty – Smith taps and Laumape goes in.
19:30: Joins maul against Argentina throw
21:10: Good clean after Laumape’s break
21:26: Inspects a ruck
21:40: Good clean
21:47: Gets up and puts in another good clean
24:52: Part of the maul defence (we concede a penalty)
27:08: Third ineffective tackler (kind of hits, kind of misses)
28:05: Joins/inspects ruck (4th man there)
29:35: Wins lineout and we set a maul
30:35: Joins our maul towards their line, we win a penalty
32:11: Wins the lineout and we maul
33:03: Fifita jumps at the lineout but can’t get two hands on it
33:50: Receives a pass from Barrett and makes about 1 metre
34:19: Receives the second pass from BBBR and drops it
37:33 Gets ball in our 22 and gets about 4-5 metres
40:15: Tries to win the ball but misses, then inspects the ruck. Ball goes out and that’s the half
40:48: Joins maul in defence
41:41: Lifts BBBR at the lineout
43:21: Steals a line out jumping at 2 then stations himself on the wing – conspicuous by his absence during the next 30 seconds as we try to get going
45:49: Second or third tackler/first ruck cleaner as Argentina attack our line – gives away the penalty for not rolling
46:01: Makes initial tackle but doesn’t take the player to the ground – Creevy offloads, they kick, and score
48:45: Joins maul defence (BBBR gets penalized)
50:58: Catch/pass
51:09: Rushes out of the line and is beaten
51:50: Is unlucky as BB can’t find him after his break
52:41 Is lucky not to get penalized for joining a ruck from an offside position (Coles about to be penalized)
53:44: Lifts Patty and then defends against the Argie maul
55:00: Terrible clean and we are lucky to not get turned over
55:34: Second (ineffective tackler)
56:00: Gets 4 metres with the ball - might have beaten one man
Is taken off at 57:20I didn’t see one dominant tackle from Fifita – in fact, he is hardly in the middle of the field – usually spending most of his time on the wings. He had one good period were he made two good cleans, but apart from that and one good steal, he’s hardly involved.
Jacobson
Looks a bit lost for the first few minutes and doesn’t really get involved until
60:04: Makes a good tackle on Labanini
61:56: Tracks across and cleans
62:41: Wins the line out
63:30: Is unlucky as he is outside Cane when he drops a sitter cold with no one in front of him
66:34: Dominant tackle in midfield
66:46: Second effective tackler
67:40: Second (ineffective) tackler / ruck joiner
67:53: Third (ineffective) tackler /ruck attacker
68:08: Excellent ruck clean to assist Coltman and we almost win the turnover
68:28: Strong tackle on man off the ruck [You almost never see Fifita defending here]
70:39: Ankle tackle and doesn’t get shaken off
71:01: Makes a tackle as the Argie player loses the ball
72:40: Third man to attend the breakdown (behind Cane and Reece)
73:01: Good clean to secure ball
74:30: Accurate clean after following BFA
76:47: Wins the line out at the back, then is strong at wrestling he attacking defenders in the following maul
78:15: Ankle tackle
78:37: Stopping tackle, then straight up again and attacks the ball at the next ruck – he’s unlucky because he would win it too, but as the Argies are under advantage, Angus goes back to the penaltyI see eight or maybe nine tackles in that short period of time, including three of four very effective tackles. Furthermore, he puts himself into positions to be influential – following the play more and putting himself one of the ruck – something Fifita almost never does. Furthermore, I saw three good cleans and one ruck attack, plus he was a pretty effective line out option.
What does it mean?
Firstly, rugbypass has some of the friendliest stats out – Fifita seemed to get credit for a lot of poor tackle assists. ESPN’s seem much more on the money (I’ve added them as a result).
Based on what I saw, I can’t how Fifita can continue to be selected. Jacobson has the Read look about him – he’s involved and he’s accurate. I’d be taking a much longer look at him and Papalii – both of them have versatility, toughness, and can contribute around the field. Frizell also deserves a chance.Overal, if this was Fifita’s WC try out, he should have just played his last test for this year.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
Have you got stills and neon arrows showing point of contact?
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@Tim said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Never seen our backline function well with Laumape at 12. Don't rate his distribution.
He’s not an organiser which is what we have had at 12 for a number of years. We did look a little directionless.
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@ACT-Crusader said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
Have you got stills and neon arrows showing point of contact?
No, I have a life!
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@Rembrandt said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Chester-Draws said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rembrandt said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Well I enjoyed that, first game of the year missing a number of stars against an Argie side who are no longer pushovers at home, it was always going to be close.
Bit rusty in execution but overall I think we did reasonably well. BB was great as too Savea and Retallick. Scrum held up well. Good to see Coles and Cane back. Jordie had a few errors but definitely worth persevering with for his boot and potential with his height. Newbies weren't over awed and gained some valuable close test match experience. Thought Gardner controlled the game beautifully, great communication with his assistants and let the game flow without missing much.
We'll be a lot better next game, Puma's are going to rue this missed opportunity for a long time, especially Sanchez missing that last penalty.
Is this one giant Poe? "did reasonably well"? "a few errors"? "potential with his height"?
What we saw was dreck -- a bad game plan, a lot of stupid penalties when not even under pressure, dropped ball, passes to no-one, some dodgy lineouts.
No, the Pumas haven't got better. You have to go back to 2006 to find the last time they were within a score of winning the game, and in our last few games against them we have won by about 20 points. We were one missed tackle in the corner away from losing that game.
I reckon 13 Super rugby final starters means something.
Yep and I also reckon we'll see Jordie the giraffe become a key AB in years to come. If only we could put money on future AB starters.
And yet when the Warratahs and Reds won, was that a sign the Wallabies were getting better?
And I'm in the group that doesn't see anything much in Jordie. Even if he does become key, he's not ready for it yet.
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@Chester-Draws He's mucked around in so many positions in both canes and ABs, no wonder he's often at a loss. Ozzie do it all the time, and look at their mess. Poor bugger needs to play in (mostly) one position for an entire season before we can really judge. Not saying he would come up smelling of roses, but at least he'd have a chance
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@gt12 said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
16:30: Sort of attends one breakdown
21:26: Inspects a ruck
28:05: Joins/inspects ruck (4th man there)
40:15: Tries to win the ball but misses, then inspects the ruck.Outstanding work.
If we need a Clouseau impersonator for the World Cup then Inspector Fifita would be perfect. As an all-action blindside flanker in the Jerry Collins/ Jerome Kaino manner not so much.
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@gt12 said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
11:06: High tackle and is penalized – then takes no part in any of the defence against the Argie attack on our line – is also unseen in the next break out which leads to a penalty
43:21: Steals a line out jumping at 2 then stations himself on the wing – conspicuous by his absence during the next 30 seconds as we try to get going
I didn’t see one dominant tackle from Fifita – in fact, he is hardly in the middle of the field – usually spending most of his time on the wings. He had one good period were he made two good cleans, but apart from that and one good steal, he’s hardly involved.
Furthermore, he puts himself into positions to be influential – following the play more and putting himself one of the ruck – something Fifita almost never does. Furthermore, I saw three good cleans and one ruckAwesome post GT.
I've cherrypicked a couple of your interrelated points.
It's potentially tough to accuse him of not being involved if he is sticking to the pattern and being where the coaches want him.
I'm not privy to the game plan but if they want him on the wing and the ball doesn't come to him he's doing his job. Similar if he is holding his position in the defensive pattern.
The more important point is how effective is he when he is involved.
Seems that last point is the real question mark.
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@Chester-Draws said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rembrandt said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Chester-Draws said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rembrandt said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Well I enjoyed that, first game of the year missing a number of stars against an Argie side who are no longer pushovers at home, it was always going to be close.
Bit rusty in execution but overall I think we did reasonably well. BB was great as too Savea and Retallick. Scrum held up well. Good to see Coles and Cane back. Jordie had a few errors but definitely worth persevering with for his boot and potential with his height. Newbies weren't over awed and gained some valuable close test match experience. Thought Gardner controlled the game beautifully, great communication with his assistants and let the game flow without missing much.
We'll be a lot better next game, Puma's are going to rue this missed opportunity for a long time, especially Sanchez missing that last penalty.
Is this one giant Poe? "did reasonably well"? "a few errors"? "potential with his height"?
What we saw was dreck -- a bad game plan, a lot of stupid penalties when not even under pressure, dropped ball, passes to no-one, some dodgy lineouts.
No, the Pumas haven't got better. You have to go back to 2006 to find the last time they were within a score of winning the game, and in our last few games against them we have won by about 20 points. We were one missed tackle in the corner away from losing that game.
I reckon 13 Super rugby final starters means something.
Yep and I also reckon we'll see Jordie the giraffe become a key AB in years to come. If only we could put money on future AB starters.
And yet when the Warratahs and Reds won, was that a sign the Wallabies were getting better?
And I'm in the group that doesn't see anything much in Jordie. Even if he does become key, he's not ready for it yet.
Jordie is actually a 12. Don't think I've mentioned that before.
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Not sure how this wasn't a card:
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Yeah, I should have pointed out that he does seem to position himself according to some plan. The problem is that even then he doesn’t put in much effort - it was a bit much to add, but he tends to be wide, but not chase. To be two off the ruck, not one off the ruck. On an opposition kick, he’ll turn and run back to a position - often directly backwards. Honestly, he looks lazy - he’s in the position he should be, but he’s like a winger who never goes looking for work.
Interestingly Jacobson was a bit like that for the first minute or so - particularly staying left early. But, he then started roving more, and when he was close to the action he’d put himself in a position to influence play - either as a pillar or one off the ruck - far more likely to be involved. Even better, he made his tackles, and they were mostly dominant. Originally I thought he looked quite Readish (early plating at 6 Read), but it’s also a bit Masoeish - especially the way he made a tackle, jumped up and attached the ball like 7. That’s a skill that Paps has too, and I’m a fan. I could see him being a good Cane/Read replacement - either way I’m sure he’ll get more black shirts, but perhaps not this year because I think he’s competing with Paps while Frizzel is against Fifita and maybe Hemopo (who’s really against Barrett).
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Chester-Draws said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rembrandt said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Chester-Draws said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rembrandt said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Well I enjoyed that, first game of the year missing a number of stars against an Argie side who are no longer pushovers at home, it was always going to be close.
Bit rusty in execution but overall I think we did reasonably well. BB was great as too Savea and Retallick. Scrum held up well. Good to see Coles and Cane back. Jordie had a few errors but definitely worth persevering with for his boot and potential with his height. Newbies weren't over awed and gained some valuable close test match experience. Thought Gardner controlled the game beautifully, great communication with his assistants and let the game flow without missing much.
We'll be a lot better next game, Puma's are going to rue this missed opportunity for a long time, especially Sanchez missing that last penalty.
Is this one giant Poe? "did reasonably well"? "a few errors"? "potential with his height"?
What we saw was dreck -- a bad game plan, a lot of stupid penalties when not even under pressure, dropped ball, passes to no-one, some dodgy lineouts.
No, the Pumas haven't got better. You have to go back to 2006 to find the last time they were within a score of winning the game, and in our last few games against them we have won by about 20 points. We were one missed tackle in the corner away from losing that game.
I reckon 13 Super rugby final starters means something.
Yep and I also reckon we'll see Jordie the giraffe become a key AB in years to come. If only we could put money on future AB starters.
And yet when the Warratahs and Reds won, was that a sign the Wallabies were getting better?
And I'm in the group that doesn't see anything much in Jordie. Even if he does become key, he's not ready for it yet.
Jordie is actually a 12. Don't think I've mentioned that before.
Then he's fourth in line, at best, and shouldn't be anywhere near the current AB squad.
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@Tim said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Not sure how this wasn't a card:
Looks bad - no arms at the very least. I'm guessing there are no better replays of the shot?
