BOP Eruption?
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@jegga said in BOP Eruption?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in BOP Eruption?:
Well after the passing of the euthanasia law maybe it wont be an issue, just get the pilot to say he wants euthanasia ... death by volcano.
Then if he does make it back he can change his mind.Terrible bloody movie
What is this word "versus" ... ?
Joe verses the Volcano
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@Siam said in BOP Eruption?:
@NTA said in BOP Eruption?:
So, let's say that one of these pilots decides - and is not prevented - from flying to the island for a deceased recovery operation.
They crash due to conditions, but are still alive and radio for help.
Is the government then obliged to send more live bodies in to rescue the living bodies that went after the dead bodies?
Or do they say "You exercised your individual choice to fly there. We are exercising our right to leave you to that choice"?
All of the above mate. Your scenario makes little allowance for the acumen and capabilities of a person whose summed up the situation and wants to act. Being stranded must certainly have crossed his/her mind.
The trouble with over regulation is that it relies on the perception that everyone's a village idiot
Caveat emptor for the rescuer
Who are they "rescuing"?
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@booboo said in BOP Eruption?:
@Siam said in BOP Eruption?:
@NTA said in BOP Eruption?:
So, let's say that one of these pilots decides - and is not prevented - from flying to the island for a deceased recovery operation.
They crash due to conditions, but are still alive and radio for help.
Is the government then obliged to send more live bodies in to rescue the living bodies that went after the dead bodies?
Or do they say "You exercised your individual choice to fly there. We are exercising our right to leave you to that choice"?
All of the above mate. Your scenario makes little allowance for the acumen and capabilities of a person whose summed up the situation and wants to act. Being stranded must certainly have crossed his/her mind.
The trouble with over regulation is that it relies on the perception that everyone's a village idiot
Caveat emptor for the rescuer
Who are they "rescuing"?
Obviously not your loved ones
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I think we can all agree there should be different levels of regulation for a rescue than for a body retrieval. For the former, I have zero issue with 99% of decisions sitting with individuals. The 1% reservation is for the potential for support crew being pressured into accompanying a gung-ho rescue pilot or similar. But for the most part, government should stay out of it.
For body retrieval, I can understand safety first for all involved. But then I have never been in n the situation of having a loved ones body lying dead on a beach. Hard to know how you'd feel.
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@voodoo said in BOP Eruption?:
I think we can all agree there should be different levels of regulation for a rescue than for a body retrieval. For the former, I have zero issue with 99% of decisions sitting with individuals. The 1% reservation is for the potential for support crew being pressured into accompanying a gung-ho rescue pilot or similar. But for the most part, government should stay out of it.
For body retrieval, I can understand safety first for all involved. But then I have never been in n the situation of having a loved ones body lying dead on a beach. Hard to know how you'd feel.
Exactly!
Fluffybunnies making decisions from miles away, full of self importance, and ignoring those at the coalface.
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@voodoo said in BOP Eruption?:
But then I have never been in n the situation of having a loved ones body lying dead on a beach. Hard to know how you'd feel.
A very individual thing.
But its hardly nanny-state to say there is nothing to be gained by risking more lives.
The stupidest thing would be to have someone die or get seriously injured in the pursuit of a corpse.
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@Siam said in BOP Eruption?:
@booboo said in BOP Eruption?:
@Siam said in BOP Eruption?:
@NTA said in BOP Eruption?:
So, let's say that one of these pilots decides - and is not prevented - from flying to the island for a deceased recovery operation.
They crash due to conditions, but are still alive and radio for help.
Is the government then obliged to send more live bodies in to rescue the living bodies that went after the dead bodies?
Or do they say "You exercised your individual choice to fly there. We are exercising our right to leave you to that choice"?
All of the above mate. Your scenario makes little allowance for the acumen and capabilities of a person whose summed up the situation and wants to act. Being stranded must certainly have crossed his/her mind.
The trouble with over regulation is that it relies on the perception that everyone's a village idiot
Caveat emptor for the rescuer
Who are they "rescuing"?
Obviously not your loved ones
How to answer that without sounding callous?
But I don't see why anyone has the right to risk someone else's life when the end goal is purely some minimal emotional gain.
I can't say how I would react in the same situation, but I hope I would not expect someone to retrieve a body by putting themselves at risk, and more importantly potentially others at risk.
To what end? Who benefits? People are sad and shocked and think it will help them.
How would you feel if those people go over and die? Or the people who have to save them die in turn.
I just don't see the logic.
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@booboo yes yes, everybody here can rationalise the pitfalls of body recovery.
It turns out that human history is littered with a philosophy of retrieving your dead comrades.
Pike river, the US Marines, all armies the endless clips of distraught people wanting " closure" all indicate that this is obviously important to those suffering and indeed the pilot, who have to deal with this tragedy, not just watch it from afar.
So perhaps we listen to the willing pilot, recognise the heartache of the families, and not call off the whole thing because a middle aged expat in Australia thinks he's worked out the meaning of life! 😉😎
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@Siam said in BOP Eruption?:
So perhaps we listen to the willing pilot, recognise the heartache of the families, and not call off the whole thing because a middle aged expat in Australia thinks he's worked out the meaning of life! 😉😎
Or, like the people who want to (distastefully) promote the Maori name for White Island during this tragedy, some pilot wants to bag a bit of publicity.
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Anyway, some encouraging news.
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Some days it'd be convenient if life was as binary as some TSF arguments.
Let's hope all goes well for the team going in at first light tomorrow, having done a bit of thought, a bit of prep for the long term future of their own lungs, and gives the best chance (or any chance) of actually being able to ID the bodies they bring back for closure.
There's several reasons that 'missing' has been used a lot Tuesday, yesterday, and even today, not only for euphemism's sake. They had a heck of a job identifying all of the people they were able to bring back on Monday - both the dead and the living...
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@NTA said in BOP Eruption?:
@Siam said in BOP Eruption?:
So perhaps we listen to the willing pilot, recognise the heartache of the families, and not call off the whole thing because a middle aged expat in Australia thinks he's worked out the meaning of life! 😉😎
Or, like the people who want to (distastefully) promote the Maori name for White Island during this tragedy, some pilot wants to bag a bit of publicity.
You cynical bugger, time for you to move back to the country 😁
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@NTA said in BOP Eruption?:
@voodoo said in BOP Eruption?:
But then I have never been in n the situation of having a loved ones body lying dead on a beach. Hard to know how you'd feel.
A very individual thing.
But its hardly nanny-state to say there is nothing to be gained by risking more lives.
The stupidest thing would be to have someone die or get seriously injured in the pursuit of a corpse.
Nothing wrong with saying that there is nothing to be gained... But they are doing more than saying... They are actually stopping.
Who is in charge of human life, the govt or the individual . Age old issue, taken to the extreme either way leads to issues.Personally I think they are insane wanting to go and get bodies
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First rule of business.... dont fuck with Worksafe NZ
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