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@antipodean this decison seems ok to me in principle.
The identifying as aboriginal is clearly wrong tho. Either you are or you aren’t. Identity politics should play no part. So if this blokes Mum is, then he’s clearly aboriginal, no?
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@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean this decison seems ok to me in principle.
I'd be interested in your take on this.
The identifying as aboriginal is clearly wrong tho. Either you are or you aren’t. Identity politics should play no part. So if this blokes Mum is, then he’s clearly aboriginal, no?
I don't understand why people hold to a declining percentage of their ancestry as the defining characteristic. Particularly for a non-citizen to prevent the democratically elected government from kicking him out of the country.
It's interesting that race as a scientific construct was debunked, but the same side of politics that did that to prevent them being treated harshly or unfairly now use it as a cultural construct to ensure they're treated beneficially.
The Migration Act and the Australian Citizenship Act 2007 (Cth) ("the Citizenship Act") are enacted under s 51(xix). The plaintiffs do not challenge the provisions of those statutes. They do not contend that the criteria stated in the Citizenship Act for Australian citizenship and the inference to be drawn from those criteria respecting the status of alien is not within the power given by s 51(xix). They contend that they are outside the purview of those statutes and s 51(xix) because they have a special status as a "non-citizen, non-alien". They say that they have that status because although they are non-citizens they cannot be aliens because they are Aboriginal persons.
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@antipodean Aboriginal people not being allowed to be deported from Australia seems like a pretty fair law to me. It can of course, be taken advantage of (and I don't know enough to really conclude if this guy is doing it or not) but if Australia is serious about acknowledging the Aboriginals as the true owners of the land, then so be it.
If half of Australia (it seems anyway) is content to splash all over social media on Australia day about acknowledging the true owners of the land their multi million dollar property sits on, then you'd think that a law disabling the ability to deport the true owners is appropriate.
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@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean Aboriginal people not being allowed to be deported from Australia seems like a pretty fair law to me. It can of course, be taken advantage of (and I don't know enough to really conclude if this guy is doing it or not) but if Australia is serious about acknowledging the Aboriginals as the true owners of the land, then so be it.
That's a reasonable response if we hold to the premise. The problem with such a position is Aboriginality is subject a ridiculous test.
One can't be an alien if one is accepted by a tribe/ mob etc. as Aboriginal.
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@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
The identifying as aboriginal is clearly wrong tho. Either you are or you aren’t. Identity politics should play no part. So if this blokes Mum is, then he’s clearly aboriginal, no?
His mum is also a woman.
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@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
@rotated huh?
Having a mother who claims to identify with with a certain ethnic group doesn't clearly make him a member of that group anymore than his mum being female makes him a woman.
If you are from the antipodes you likely can find a grandparent or great-grandparent who was a genuine member of an ethnic group that you couldn't claim with a straight face.
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It's a "Trump" style law this deporting from Australia, I reckon. Sign up as a citizen or you won't get Aussie rights I guess is the message and objective.
Using this case, both men moved to Australia when they were 5 and have had permanent residency status since. Upon the deportation one was 31 years old and the other 40.
40 year old : "After serving part of an 18-month sentence for a domestic violence assault".
31 year old: "was sentenced to more than a year in jail for assault occasioning actual bodily harm."
Seems a bit foul to wait 30 odd years to chuck your garbage over the fence to your neighbours when it suits.
And now you have to check your garbage till you know it can be chucked over the neighbour's. 😀
I always wonder if they consistently chuck the garbage to all countries of origin?
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@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
@rotated I still don’t think you have a point. If I’m reading this correctly you are stating that race isn’t passed on just like gender
Obviously it is. The question is where does it stopped. It holds to reason that if you are race X simply because your parents were, then your children would be and so on ad infinitum. At some point this becomes ridiculous.
The articles say his mother is indigenous, not she “claims to identify as”.
By what means though? There is no official designation to my knowledge and the high court stopped short of saying that the NZ born chap was indeed Aboriginal himself as there isn't a mechanism to determine who is or isn't.
I have zero interest in judging this guy (or his mother's) ancestoral claims. If he claims to be Aboriginal are genuine then good luck to him, if they are a cynical ploy to gain undue privileges under the law then that is a problem.
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@Siam said in Aussie Politics:
It's a "Trump" style law this deporting from Australia, I reckon. Sign up as a citizen or you won't get Aussie rights I guess is the message and objective.
Using this case, both men moved to Australia when they were 5 and have had permanent residency status since. Upon the deportation one was 31 years old and the other 40.
40 year old : "After serving part of an 18-month sentence for a domestic violence assault".
31 year old: "was sentenced to more than a year in jail for assault occasioning actual bodily harm."
Seems a bit foul to wait 30 odd years to chuck your garbage over the fence to your neighbours when it suits.
And now you have to check your garbage till you know it can be chucked over the neighbour's. 😀
I always wonder if they consistently chuck the garbage to all countries of origin?
I don't have a problem with it. I don't care if they've been here for 99.999% of their lives. They've chosen not to be citizens, so they should be removed. They're guests, this decision by the HC notwithstanding.
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@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
@Siam said in Aussie Politics:
It's a "Trump" style law this deporting from Australia, I reckon. Sign up as a citizen or you won't get Aussie rights I guess is the message and objective.
Using this case, both men moved to Australia when they were 5 and have had permanent residency status since. Upon the deportation one was 31 years old and the other 40.
40 year old : "After serving part of an 18-month sentence for a domestic violence assault".
31 year old: "was sentenced to more than a year in jail for assault occasioning actual bodily harm."
Seems a bit foul to wait 30 odd years to chuck your garbage over the fence to your neighbours when it suits.
And now you have to check your garbage till you know it can be chucked over the neighbour's. 😀
I always wonder if they consistently chuck the garbage to all countries of origin?
I don't have a problem with it. I don't care if they've been here for 99.999% of their lives. They've chosen not to be citizens, so they should be removed. They're guests, this decision by the HC notwithstanding.
No room for an argument that says, Australia gained from their residency (GST perhaps?) and now origin country has to foot the bill? Or even, origin country had no input to the guy being a criminal.?
I'm also not fussed by the law but it does raise responsibility issues.
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@Siam said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
@Siam said in Aussie Politics:
It's a "Trump" style law this deporting from Australia, I reckon. Sign up as a citizen or you won't get Aussie rights I guess is the message and objective.
Using this case, both men moved to Australia when they were 5 and have had permanent residency status since. Upon the deportation one was 31 years old and the other 40.
40 year old : "After serving part of an 18-month sentence for a domestic violence assault".
31 year old: "was sentenced to more than a year in jail for assault occasioning actual bodily harm."
Seems a bit foul to wait 30 odd years to chuck your garbage over the fence to your neighbours when it suits.
And now you have to check your garbage till you know it can be chucked over the neighbour's. 😀
I always wonder if they consistently chuck the garbage to all countries of origin?
I don't have a problem with it. I don't care if they've been here for 99.999% of their lives. They've chosen not to be citizens, so they should be removed. They're guests, this decision by the HC notwithstanding.
No room for an argument that says, Australia gained from their residency (GST perhaps?) and now origin country has to foot the bill? Or even, origin country had no input to the guy being a criminal.?
I'm also not fussed by the law but it does raise responsibility issues.
London to a brick neither of these guys were net contributors. It's the simplest test to administer: If you're not a citizen, you've worn out your welcome.
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You can't stop progress!
https://m.themorningbulletin.com.au/news/parent-fury-as-primary-school-bans-cupcakes/3943752/
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@Rembrandt said in Aussie Politics:
You can't stop progress!
https://m.themorningbulletin.com.au/news/parent-fury-as-primary-school-bans-cupcakes/3943752/
I don't recall celebrating my birthday at school.
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I can't read either article, cos fuck the Guardian, and I'm not paying for the Australian. But, it sounds like ridiculousness from UQ.
However, as someone who works at one, university staff are finding it hard going too - many students simply do not care and as the profit motive grows with user pays, the ability of institutions to guide students towards and through critical reasoned thinking is getting harder and harder. So, it's not great, but it follows society - look at what (and who) is valued in society, and then try to come at 19 year-olds with deductive and inductive reasoning and counter argument techniques, and see where that gets you.
I'd add that university administrators and university staff are (generally) very different too. One problem is that educators and researchers generally want to avoid administration and focus on education, while administrators are focused on spin, student numbers, and the avoidance of any risk. Again, that follows society.
Sorry for the diversion.
Anyway, why universities are trying to limit debate about this issue is beyond me.
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