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Sorry I’ve been coming and going on here with out reading previous comments. But I need to vent.
Today I went to the chemist to pick up my daughters prescription. It’s not a life threatening ailment but she needs it none the less.
I was absolutely disgusted by the amount of elderly people at the mall. Just treating the mall as means to get together. There was a group of women standing in the entry at the mall. You had no choice but to walk almost up against them or tell them to move. I chose the latter and it took everything I had not to scold them further. At the pharmacy 3 more women, complete strangers to each other by the sounds, had a long conversation about hair dye. All within a metre of each other.
At the Brumbies there was another group sifting through packets of hot cross buns.
I’m not buying the “these people only have so many years left. If they want to go out let them choose..” bs argument I’ve heard from some quarters.
The entire country is holding its breath to save you. Stay fucking home! There are high school seniors that will lose their ability to attend formal, play their last footy game, go to parties and turn 18 and have their first drink in a pub. But is all good Betty. You have your 15min chat about fucken cats and “oh isn’t this virus business ghastly” while selfishly ignoring that the rest of the country is slowly going bankrupt in order to save your Jurassic ass.
Yes this is a different tone to my initial comments about missing the impact on the elderly. But this has to be said. If you’re not going to help yourselves then why should the rest of us?!
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Meanwhile cardiovascular disease accounts for a quarter of all deaths in this country and a million hospitalisations, per year.
Agreed. But you don't transmit heart disease to people, so that's a bit of false equivalence.
By all means, let's have a sensible discussion about controlling it, and try to find the middle ground where we don't have everything go tits up.
At the same time, let's imagine a scenario where it rips through multiple old person's homes like wildfire, and we just shrug and say "soz fam, but some of us have lives to lead, economies to run, and trampoline venues to attend!"
Don't think scomo or GHunt will need taking those calls in a hurry.
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
That's asking the counter-factual which can never be proven
Neither side can be proven as "right". Sliding doors or whatever.
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@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Meanwhile cardiovascular disease accounts for a quarter of all deaths in this country and a million hospitalisations, per year.
Agreed. But you don't transmit heart disease to people, so that's a bit of false equivalence.
I don't think it is and the reason I say that is the vast majority of the verbiage is in the quantum of the projected toll.
In 2017, there were 160,909 deaths registered in Australia. The majority of deaths in Australia, like other developed countries, occur among older people. Sixty-six per cent of deaths registered in Australia in 2017 were among people aged 75 or over (60% for males and 73% for females). The median age at death was 78 years for males and 85 years for females. (https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/age-at-death)
So even if Covid 19 added to the death toll, it would still come from the same demographic and could be considered slightly premature for that cohort. It's certainly not Armageddon.
By all means, let's have a sensible discussion about controlling it, and try to find the middle ground where we don't have everything go tits up.
At the same time, let's imagine a scenario where it rips through multiple old person's homes like wildfire, and we just shrug and say "soz fam, but some of us have lives to lead, economies to run, and trampoline venues to attend!"
Don't think scomo or GHunt will need taking those calls in a hurry.
Agreed and while I'm not an expert, I am certainly swayed by those who are pointing out we're making enormous decisions without the benefit of compelling evidence.
I certainly don't care about the fortunes of politicians seeking to correct the public perception after a previous calamity. Especially when to protect the infirm etc. they impose a further burden on succeeding generations. What are the odds this country will experience another golden period to reduce our public debt?
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@raznomore said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Sorry I’ve been coming and going on here with out reading previous comments. But I need to vent.
Today I went to the chemist to pick up my daughters prescription. It’s not a life threatening ailment but she needs it none the less.
I was absolutely disgusted by the amount of elderly people at the mall. Just treating the mall as means to get together. There was a group of women standing in the entry at the mall. You had no choice but to walk almost up against them or tell them to move. I chose the latter and it took everything I had not to scold them further. At the pharmacy 3 more women, complete strangers to each other by the sounds, had a long conversation about hair dye. All within a metre of each other.
At the Brumbies there was another group sifting through packets of hot cross buns.
I’m not buying the “these people only have so many years left. If they want to go out let them choose..” bs argument I’ve heard from some quarters.
The entire country is holding its breath to save you. Stay fucking home! There are high school seniors that will lose their ability to attend formal, play their last footy game, go to parties and turn 18 and have their first drink in a pub. But is all good Betty. You have your 15min chat about fucken cats and “oh isn’t this virus business ghastly” while selfishly ignoring that the rest of the country is slowly going bankrupt in order to save your Jurassic ass.
Yes this is a different tone to my initial comments about missing the impact on the elderly. But this has to be said. If you’re not going to help yourselves then why should the rest of us?!
Where are you Raz? Sydney?
It isn't just the elderly though. Plenty of peeps younger have died too, just more predominantly oldies.
Agree with the sentiment. Maybe that's where they've got to take that extra step and label it a lock down.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Agreed and while I'm not an expert, I am certainly swayed by those who are pointing out we're making enormous decisions without the benefit of compelling evidence.
It is hard to gather evidence of the effect without letting it run its course. My perception is coloured somewhat by sharing a house with someone who works for BaptistCare, where the world has gone utterly mad.
What are the odds this country will experience another golden period to reduce our public debt?
We didn't really take full advantage of the last one, so we'd need a fairly serious uplift in quality of economic management in order to achieve that.
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Case increase for yesterday was under 10% BUT the figure I'm using is nearly 12 hours old.
Rate of increase trend looks good from 100th case at this point. Lot of pieces to move around yet.
I've got a Suburban Rugby Board meeting tonight - it only took a pandemic for them to agree to a videoconference so I didn't have to drive 50km to get to NSW Rugby HQ in Daceyville.
Will be a quick meeting I'm guessing.
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
But more importantly the 'it's already bad for jobs, so what's a few more?' is a bit tough on the hundreds of thousands of people who are still in construction jobs. Or landscaping or mechanics or packing shelves at Bunnings.
I don't blame the Government for trying to keep as many people in jobs for as long as possible.
Anecdotally the goose is already cooked in most of these industries. Even if they are still technically open people are going to delay oil changes and routine maintenance as they have no interest in sitting in a waiting area or taking a courtesy shuttle. People who had planned renovations have little interest in contractors coming in and out of their home for two weeks.
Consumer confidence is in the gutter and discresionary spend is as close to zero is is possible irregardless of it they are technically "open" or not.
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@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Case increase for yesterday was under 10% BUT the figure I'm using is nearly 12 hours old.
Rate of increase trend looks good from 100th case at this point. Lot of pieces to move around yet.
I've got a Suburban Rugby Board meeting tonight - it only took a pandemic for them to agree to a videoconference so I didn't have to drive 50km to get to NSW Rugby HQ in Daceyville.
Will be a quick meeting I'm guessing.
Is that australia wide data or just NSW?
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NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian just had a press announcement where she stated the police will issue on the spot fines people who ignore the rules (people who gather in more than two, unless they're a family group). These will be enforced from midnight tonight.
She also stated, as @barbarian noted, the number of new cases trended down overnight, so hopefully that continues.
@raznomore Where I live in Sydney there are groups of old people out together all the time, because of where I live they're mostly Asian. I also see lots of older tourist couples when I do my daily walk around Darling Harbour.
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Australia:
NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian just had a press announcement where she stated the police will issue on the spot fines people who ignore the rules (people who gather in more than two, unless they're a family group). These will be enforced from midnight tonight.
And people used to laugh at Queensland under Joh.
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@booboo said in Coronavirus - Australia:
We're effectively in lock down.
Went for drive this arvo:
- Ms Boo Jr (Leaner driver) needed to get books out of her locker at school
- Mrs Boo needed to drop in to work to set up her new Acting GM's office.
(Mrs Boo is EA to GM at local private hospital. Have suggested to Mrs Boo that they will be swamped with the non-COVID cases from across the road, and that she's on the front line.)
Anyways, so little traffic. Went to Coles (No loo paper) and for veges and stuff. And there's nobody there.
I really don't see much difference to NZ's situation to what is happening here.
There's a massive difference between NZ and what you describe. Here you couldn't do any of the things you describe.
This thread is full of descriptions of people at the shops in the parks getting together in groups.
In NZ you stay at home unless you are in an essential industry. You can go to the supermarket. Where you queue 2 metres apart and they let 1 in - 1 out. You can go to the pharmacy where one person is in the shop at a time and you can't wait for your scrip. When you enter and leave you sanitise.
You can go for a walk in your local neighbourhood - only with the people you are living with and you have to keep 2 metres away from everyone else at all times. You can go for a bike ride with the people you live with - you can ride a little further but not across the city.
I went for a ride yesterday. All along major thoroughfares. In 20kms I was passed by 7 cars and 3 buses. There were plenty of people out walking but they were giving each other wide berths - like crossing the road wide.
The rest of the tie your at home.
That sounds nothing like Oz. From this side of the ditch the impression we get is you guys are not treating this seriously and are losing control. Hope that's wrong but it's how it feels.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Australia:
NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian just had a press announcement where she stated the police will issue on the spot fines people who ignore the rules (people who gather in more than two, unless they're a family group). These will be enforced from midnight tonight.
And people used to laugh at Queensland under Joh.
I think all the states are doing this, not just NSW,:
Queensland: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-28/coronavirus-queensland-police-fines-and-expanded-telehealth/12089558
I have a mate in Seattle, they've had lockdown with fines and proper distancing (he has to stand in line outside a supermarket with the the proper distance observed, their playgrounds have been closed for over a week now) for a while now, so it's pretty much happening everywhere including Murica.
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@rotated said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Anecdotally the goose is already cooked in most of these industries. Even if they are still technically open people are going to delay oil changes and routine maintenance as they have no interest in sitting in a waiting area or taking a courtesy shuttle. People who had planned renovations have little interest in contractors coming in and out of their home for two weeks.
I suppose I'm seeing it from the perspective of being stuck in a small town on the south coast. It's not bustling by any stretch, but there are still a few homes being built, some roadworks going on, and various other signs of life in and around the town.
All are very low risk activities, especially when you consider the nearest case is 100km away.
These are the types of people I think a lockout would adversely effect, and for what end? You could of course limit it to Sydney but that creates its own problems, and might send a raft of Sydneysiders down/up the coast en masse.
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
send a raft of Sydneysiders down/up the coast en masse.
Prepare a bed for me. I hope you're well stocked with TP!
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I think all the states are doing this, not just NSW,:
I didn't mean to imply the lunacy was restricted to NSW.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Australia:
That sounds nothing like Oz. From this side of the ditch the impression we get is you guys are not treating this seriously and are losing control. Hope that's wrong but it's how it feels.
I think the numbers from this week are showing that the rate of growth is slowing and it is being brought under some sort of control.
We will only be able to judge the relative merits of the Australian solution vs the NZ solution 6-12 months after this has all finished. Even then you aren't really comparing apples with apples given the relative size of both countries and the different levers both countries have the ability to pull.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Australia:
That sounds nothing like Oz. From this side of the ditch the impression we get is you guys are not treating this seriously and are losing control. Hope that's wrong but it's how it feels.
As at 3:00pm on 29 March 2020, there have been 3,966 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Australia. Or 0.0159% of Australia.
And our new cases aren't increasing exponentially:
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@antipodean I think a key issue is if the numbers overwhelm the ICU (and the wider health system) ability to cope, the health system has to triage more unpleasantly. In Italy, the numbers of cases saw them having to make decisions to limit admissions to younger people, basically leaving older Italians to die. People also start to die from other causes because ICU and other areas of the health system are full.
The tsunami analogy has some merit - keep the wave waist high and most people will survive, but if it gets too much higher, a lot of people die.
Coronavirus - Australia