Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
After watching that update we are certainly being prepared for another week at least level 4 IMO.
Maybe. The questions in the press conference mostly related to this story. Perhaps the govt may not be ready to move down a level?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12325778
So it looks like there may be another poor public sector IT project. There'll be some developers working long hours right now..
Many of their concerns relate to the outdated system used by the Institute of Environmental Science and Research (ESR) to manage the data about Covid-19 cases - referred to by one source as a "dinosaur". There are fears the system cannot work quickly enough to isolate positive cases and stop transmission. Another expert told the Herald the way the data is structured in the system is one of the barriers to properly mapping and tracing clusters. It requires manual work to get the information out, rather than being exported in a structured way. This is on top of concerns already raised by external scientists about the way New Zealand's devolved health system - the district health boards and the public health units - feed the data into that system. One scientist this week said some of the information is still shared by fax machine.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If they extend this thing past the weekend because they "don't trust us", that's police state shit .
We citizens now can't be trusted by our all-knowing government??? Trusted to dp/not do what??? There is fuck all to do in L3!
Are we all going to jump in our speedboats? Start hugging strangers in the supermarket? Open illegal bars and massage parlours???
I know some of you disagree, but I'm getting really concerned with Government overreach here.
Welcome on board my wagon.....
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@SynicBast said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
on a purely personal note, I'm just waiting to hear what the overseas travel restrictions will be in the medium term - I have a household lot of goods in storage in Australia that I may not be able to get shipped over for years. It would be nice to have all my books, hobby stuff, paintings and tech gear back.
That wont be effected, in fact you could get them to NZ now. PM me if you need help.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@SynicBast said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
on a purely personal note, I'm just waiting to hear what the overseas travel restrictions will be in the medium term - I have a household lot of goods in storage in Australia that I may not be able to get shipped over for years. It would be nice to have all my books, hobby stuff, paintings and tech gear back.
That wont be effected, in fact you could get them to NZ now. PM me if you need help.
Many thnaks, I'll need to go over anyway to sort out what I really don't need to keep anyway - It was a rush to get everything in storage as it was so a lot of stuff would need to be reboxed and repacked before I can even contemplate arranging for freight.
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Level 3 lets more people go to work, but it's hardly a huge improvement on level 4 in terms of the cage doors opening.
However, in good news, apparently, not only is our curve flattening, it's exponentially reducing - halving every 5 days. At this rate, we are probably looking at a total of 6-8 weeks at levels 3&4 (so another 2-4 weeks) and then back to level 2.
The rest of the world is rightly envious of that, because they're generally looking at months of the equivalent of level 3+. 4 weeks seems a bit early to be rolling out the civil liberties flag - human rights and civil liberties are critically important to the NZ democracy, but the most important right is the right to life because the rest are not much use to dead people.
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@Kirwan I hate saying this, but I'm worried about my bro in lockdown in nz.
We've always been level 2 (lots more human interaction, work and opportunities to get out of the house) and judging by numbers it's no more deadly than level 4.Speaking to relatives there, the conversations end in "well better to be safe and we'll see in the long run", almost an unhealthy reliance on this thing proving level 4 a country saving success. But a look over the Ta$man shows another way, with very comparable numbers and a health system coping.
I wish Cindy would relax your living conditions. It's too much. It bothers me greatly
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Level 3 lets more people go to work, but it's hardly a huge improvement on level 4 in terms of the cage doors opening.
However, in good news, apparently, not only is our curve flattening, it's exponentially reducing - halving every 5 days. At this rate, we are probably looking at a total of 6-8 weeks at levels 3&4 (so another 2-4 weeks) and then back to level 2.
The rest of the world is rightly envious of that, because they're generally looking at months of the equivalent of level 3+. 4 weeks seems a bit early to be rolling out the civil liberties flag - human rights and civil liberties are critically important to the NZ democracy, but the most important right is the right to life because the rest are not much use to dead people.
And a cratered economy is a damn sight harder on people on the other side.
This is exactly the sort of scare mongering that drove that poll result.
The original justification for this lockdown was not to eliminate the disease but to prevent our health system from being overwhelmed. That has been achieved and over the last four weeks process and capacity has been added to help even more with that.
So let’s move down the levels fast, test appropriately, contain regional reoccurrence, and get back to normalise life.
Even today Cindy was downplaying the huge impact this is having on the economy. “Doing in tough” is not even close to what’s coming IMO.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Level 3 lets more people go to work, but it's hardly a huge improvement on level 4 in terms of the cage doors opening.
However, in good news, apparently, not only is our curve flattening, it's exponentially reducing - halving every 5 days. At this rate, we are probably looking at a total of 6-8 weeks at levels 3&4 (so another 2-4 weeks) and then back to level 2.
The rest of the world is rightly envious of that, because they're generally looking at months of the equivalent of level 3+. 4 weeks seems a bit early to be rolling out the civil liberties flag - human rights and civil liberties are critically important to the NZ democracy, but the most important right is the right to life because the rest are not much use to dead people.
And a cratered economy is a damn sight harder on people on the other side.
This is exactly the sort of scare mongering that drove that poll result.
The original justification for this lockdown was not to eliminate the disease but to prevent our health system from being overwhelmed. That has been achieved and over the last four weeks process and capacity has been added to help even more with that.
So let’s move down the levels fast, test appropriately, contain regional reoccurrence, and get back to normalise life.
Even today Cindy was downplaying the huge impact this is having on the economy. “Doing in tough” is not even close to what’s coming IMO.
If I could upvote twice, I would
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Level 3 lets more people go to work, but it's hardly a huge improvement on level 4 in terms of the cage doors opening.
However, in good news, apparently, not only is our curve flattening, it's exponentially reducing - halving every 5 days. At this rate, we are probably looking at a total of 6-8 weeks at levels 3&4 (so another 2-4 weeks) and then back to level 2.
The rest of the world is rightly envious of that, because they're generally looking at months of the equivalent of level 3+. 4 weeks seems a bit early to be rolling out the civil liberties flag - human rights and civil liberties are critically important to the NZ democracy, but the most important right is the right to life because the rest are not much use to dead people.
Not envious mate, more like aghast at the cruelty. Honestly.🙁
Australia and NZ is a definitive comparison in global context. -
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Level 3 lets more people go to work, but it's hardly a huge improvement on level 4 in terms of the cage doors opening.
However, in good news, apparently, not only is our curve flattening, it's exponentially reducing - halving every 5 days. At this rate, we are probably looking at a total of 6-8 weeks at levels 3&4 (so another 2-4 weeks) and then back to level 2.
The rest of the world is rightly envious of that, because they're generally looking at months of the equivalent of level 3+. 4 weeks seems a bit early to be rolling out the civil liberties flag - human rights and civil liberties are critically important to the NZ democracy, but the most important right is the right to life because the rest are not much use to dead people.
I find this analysis interesting, because it comes form an angle I just cannot properly empathise with.
There is no balance occurring, those who support authoritarian rule and complete govt control dont believe in compromise.. they are showing a complete and utter lack of belief in personal liberty for the 'greater good'. At the risk of Godwins law I cannot help but think that similar things happened at the start of every evil regime, with good people being convinced to give up personal liberty because of scare mongering and propaganda. The way people who I would consider good and decent have just bent over and accepted house arrest and mass infliction of poverty blows my mind and is incredibly disheartenng. Any time you strip an individual of liberty and justify it by a 'greater good' should take some serious honest debate and critical thinking, not mass hysteria and one sided propaganda. When someone like @taniwharugby supports such things I find more terrifying than anything, because I know he is not stupid, and he is a decent bugger, but if he can be convinced that stripping of freedoms and mass poverty infliction like this is ok.. then the I am very much in the minority and NZ is in for a tough future indeed.
Scare mongering that the right to life is more important is civil liberties completely ignores scale. how many have died? How many are under house arrest? Tajen to its logical conclusion, driving will be outlawed so save road fatalities, alcohol will also be banned. .. drink driving kills innocents.. can someone explain how it is different?
I just hope that history has a chance to judge the response harshly, but I am skeptical because the narrative is controlled by those in charge, and they have no interest in real analysis of their own performance... -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback first 2 paragraphs there isn't a lot to disagree with I'd have thought?
Anything that gets more people back to work is a good thing, is still some occupations I think could go back that I believe won't be allowed under L3 though...
The claims the world is envious, not as convinced...but time will tell, I'd say the world is probably looking at both us and Australia with interest though, envy, not so sure.
As an aside, I will often like a post where it might only have a couple of points I agree with, but some I don't, I just can't be arsed arguing the points I don't....
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This is a good article which shows the incredible harm that will be caused by this recession.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120996640/coronavirus-redundancy-hammers-mental-and-physical-health
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback mental health is going to be a massive issue, if it wasn't already.
I met with one of my clients the day of the lockdown announcement and he was pretty down, I caught up with him last week (Not in person obviously) and was good to hear he was pretty up beat. L3 sees him still only able to operate in a limited capacity though.
I have been lucky that this has not impacted me financially (yet) but plenty of my clients have been and will be affected in the short term and longer.
I have one who bought a multi-million dollar construction business late last year that had been going along strongly, I imagine he will be shitting bricks right now.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback mental health is going to be a massive issue, if it wasn't already.
I met with one of my clients the day of the lockdown announcement and he was pretty down, I caught up with him last week (Not in person obviously) and was good to hear he was pretty up beat. L3 sees him still only able to operate in a limited capacity though.
I have been lucky that this has not impacted me financially (yet) but plenty of my clients have been and will be affected in the short term and longer.
I have one who bought a multi-million dollar construction business late last year that had been going along strongly, I imagine he will be shitting bricks right now.
I remembering you discussing your own personal experience with redundancy. As we are aware it is far more than just numbers on an economic report. These saying that lives should come first don't really understand what lives are IMO
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback i have accepted we are where we are, whether I agree with it or not, as stressing about wrong decisions does no one any good.
My redundancy experience has put us in a position to better deal with it I think, particularly mentally as I didn't deal with the redundancy well (In myself, I didn't hurt anyone, but my wife was worried about my mental wellbeing) but I know there are plenty who won't have the ability to deal with it...they will hurt others, be it physically or mentally, and that will have a knock on effect similar to the passing of a virus.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Level 3 lets more people go to work, but it's hardly a huge improvement on level 4 in terms of the cage doors opening.
However, in good news, apparently, not only is our curve flattening, it's exponentially reducing - halving every 5 days. At this rate, we are probably looking at a total of 6-8 weeks at levels 3&4 (so another 2-4 weeks) and then back to level 2.
The rest of the world is rightly envious of that, because they're generally looking at months of the equivalent of level 3+. 4 weeks seems a bit early to be rolling out the civil liberties flag - human rights and civil liberties are critically important to the NZ democracy, but the most important right is the right to life because the rest are not much use to dead people.
And a cratered economy is a damn sight harder on people on the other side.
This is exactly the sort of scare mongering that drove that poll result.
The original justification for this lockdown was not to eliminate the disease but to prevent our health system from being overwhelmed. That has been achieved and over the last four weeks process and capacity has been added to help even more with that.
So let’s move down the levels fast, test appropriately, contain regional reoccurrence, and get back to normalise life.
Even today Cindy was downplaying the huge impact this is having on the economy. “Doing in tough” is not even close to what’s coming IMO.
I think when level 4 started we didn't think it would be as successful as it has been. Now we have a chance to actually eliminate this from New Zealand. The worst thing we could do would be to go down the levels quickly and have it spread. Then you go back to level 4 or have unfettered community transmission and what we have done so far will be for nothing. We have the chance to get back to "normal" in NZ and we should take that if possible.
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@hydro11 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Level 3 lets more people go to work, but it's hardly a huge improvement on level 4 in terms of the cage doors opening.
However, in good news, apparently, not only is our curve flattening, it's exponentially reducing - halving every 5 days. At this rate, we are probably looking at a total of 6-8 weeks at levels 3&4 (so another 2-4 weeks) and then back to level 2.
The rest of the world is rightly envious of that, because they're generally looking at months of the equivalent of level 3+. 4 weeks seems a bit early to be rolling out the civil liberties flag - human rights and civil liberties are critically important to the NZ democracy, but the most important right is the right to life because the rest are not much use to dead people.
And a cratered economy is a damn sight harder on people on the other side.
This is exactly the sort of scare mongering that drove that poll result.
The original justification for this lockdown was not to eliminate the disease but to prevent our health system from being overwhelmed. That has been achieved and over the last four weeks process and capacity has been added to help even more with that.
So let’s move down the levels fast, test appropriately, contain regional reoccurrence, and get back to normalise life.
Even today Cindy was downplaying the huge impact this is having on the economy. “Doing in tough” is not even close to what’s coming IMO.
I think when level 4 started we didn't think it would be as successful as it has been. Now we have a chance to actually eliminate this from New Zealand. The worst thing we could do would be to go down the levels quickly and have it spread. Then you go back to level 4 or have unfettered community transmission and what we have done so far will be for nothing. We have the chance to get back to "normal" in NZ and we should take that if possible.
What a giant leap you make to get from our current 10 cases per day to "unfettered community transmission". We are destroying our economy, and the livelihood of thousands of people, for something that has 18 people in hospital.
It's just absurd.
As it stands, we could return to some semblance of "normal life" in NZ right now. We should be at L3 immediately, where there is next to no extra risk given how tight it is.
L2 should be right around the corner if the data continues on this trajectory.
This BS about elimination and effective contact tracing does my head in. Why do we need to have the "gold standard" / 100% success rate for this? We have no drain on our hospitals. This disease doesn't have some 20% fatality rate on the otherwise-healthy. Do we know where every flu patient has been every year, do we get stressed that they may have visited a rest home or a workplace or a school? Are people asked to keep diaries in case they catch it?
We just dont need to eliminate this thing in NZ. Its a totally unnecessary goal, and it's doing significantly more harm than good right now.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It would be borderline criminal to extend this lockdown.
That’s getting a bit carried away.
Criminal?Fucking really?
Level headed poster, right there