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@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
I dont think I would want national in power right now or ever again. I think they are far to comfortable with china whom is looking very aggressive atm imposing sanctions on australia for merely supporting an investigation on Chinas handling of the virus. I think things could turn very sour.
Labour whilst having reasonable intentions is just inept at anything except taking peoples freedoms. The shutdown can be argued for or against. My opinion far too strict but understand the strict approach. But after failed policy after failed policy I have no faith in there ability to handle a 124 billion govt fix up job.
Jacinda Arden is good in front of the camera to people with fleeting interest in politics and achieves world wise praise as a "successful female anti-trump". But with bills being passes through under covid 19 and now another half truth with the voluntary pay cuts after accepting the praises for it I am not happy with her.
David Seymour has constantly been a strong voice in opposition but I'm not sure of act policy wise. Perhaps less govt is the best option of all others are becoming increasingly poor.
I like the intentions of TOP. UBI - land tax -lowernincome tax solves alot of issues with current nz economy. But the social policies they had last election are very far from where I stand.
Nz first needs to die.
Greens are a shit show of terrible ideologies.
Not really in a positive mood are you champ!
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@Godder said in NZ Politics:
@JC as a Labour Party member, it's nowhere near the entire wish list.
I know this is probably a joke. But if this is representative of the attitude of Labour members the country is fucked.
JC posted a pretty somber take on the mismanagement going on and you joke about it not being the entire Wishlist?
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This is probably as good a place as any for this...
Interesting read
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/news/can-our-oil-refinery-survive/ar-BB145J9W?ocid=sf2
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@JC said in NZ Politics:
@Godder said in NZ Politics:
@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
I have just confirmed how I will vote. Years of debt to come for somebody else to fix. Hey, lets just print money. I have been through this before with labour.
I was actually on the cusp, but labour will team with Winnie. So fuck them. You can't vote for two teams even though I dislike Bridges.
I have had a few drinks and lost a friend who's funeral I can't go to so, sorry but it is all fucked.
Condolences man, that sucks.
National are either going with Winnie or into opposition. Also not sure how any government could do anything other than go into massive debt in this - even if we had closed our borders in January, the economy was going to hell in a handbasket from the total lack of international tourism and massive downturn in the global economy.
There's debt, then there is this level of debt.
What level of debt are you concerned with?
Grant's created a $50 billion warchest and he's not going to come close to spending it prior to the election - unless he's a moron.
Come the election, he'll be telling us that despite creating the war chest, he'spent only a very modest proportion.
Fiscally prudent.
Under-promise/Over-deliver.
Smart!
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@Chris-B It’s not just the war chest it’s the funding of successive deficits of (as percentage of GDP) 9.3, 9.3, 9.3, unspecified, 1.3, 0.7, 0.1 and 0.1. That takes us to 2028, when there’s supposed to be a surplus of 0.1%. So we probably won’t even start paying down the debt for nearly a decade. Sure a recession was due, but the depth and length of this one is made worse by the beanfeast they’ve announced this year.
I’m not sure it’s actually a war chest either. That suggests something built up as a contingency. That hasn’t happened here. They haven’t got 50 billion bucks carefully stored away somewhere.
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@JC yeah - but, we really only need to be concerned with what gets spent in the next four months. After that, there could be a different government.
I don't doubt that Grant could raise $50 billion if he really needed to - but, I'm inclined to think that number is just a political Trojan horse.
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@Chris-B So if I’m a business owner should I A. Invest because the Minister of Finance is just politically posturing, B. Batten down the hatches and run a business as lean as possible because he’s not posturing, he’s flagging up a horror show of a next few years and I’m going to need the money, C. Wait and hope that someone who has a clue about business, finance or economics takes hold of the reins or D. Give up now because it’s not worth the heartache to try and keep things running when the likelihood is my business is going to fail anyway?
Political decisions, especially fiscal ones, have real world consequences. But I’m not surprised Robertson doesn’t appreciate that, nor am I surprised that his approach is to bribe the voters with other people’s money in the hope they won’t notice he hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing.
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@JC said in NZ Politics:
@Chris-B So if I’m a business owner should I A. Invest because the Minister of Finance is just politically posturing, B. Batten down the hatches and run a business as lean as possible because he’s not posturing, he’s flagging up a horror show of a next few years and I’m going to need the money, C. Wait and hope that someone who has a clue about business, finance or economics takes hold of the reins or D. Give up now because it’s not worth the heartache to try and keep things running when the likelihood is my business is going to fail anyway?
Political decisions, especially fiscal ones, have real world consequences. But I’m not surprised Robertson doesn’t appreciate that, nor am I surprised that his approach is to bribe the voters with other people’s money in the hope they won’t notice he hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing.
Labour were in trouble before Turei blew up and Cindy took over. They lacked the capacity to be a credible opposition let alone govern. I think they have done what needed to be done and should take credit. But is it any surprise that they can't work this out?
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@canefan Not really a surprise, no. I don’t think they have the intellectual horsepower in their cabinet, but that’s just my opinion. You can get away with that if you have experience to fall back on but Robertson’s is entirely theoretical. And this time they haven’t been as rigorous on the number crunching as is usual, which increases the risk of poor decision making. All budgets are ideological of course, but this one feels like it’s based on wilful ignorance of any counterarguments.
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@JC when you chucking your hat in the ring bro!
While I think it is clear things aint great, I also hate the fact the media help move things along with thier doom and gloom talk all the time.
I'm not a big fan of The Don, but I liked what he said a week or so back, something along the lines of America is just sitting waiting to get back out there and back to business!
While I appreciate babying the public aint ideal, at the end of the day, so many people seem swayed by the media and need to be baby-stepped through so much, so when the media say shit is bad, people believe it...think sometimes a bit of positivity can go a long way!
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@Kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@Godder said in NZ Politics:
@JC as a Labour Party member, it's nowhere near the entire wish list.
I know this is probably a joke. But if this is representative of the attitude of Labour members the country is fucked.
JC posted a pretty somber take on the mismanagement going on and you joke about it not being the entire Wishlist?
It's a joke with a grain of truth - there are plenty of blogs and articles with the view that the budget hasn't done enough in various places, particularly the tax system, welfare and the environment. There are also articles along the whole continuum of how awful the budget is to how excellent it is, and all points in between, so it's not remotely a consensus of mismanagement.
The budget itself is a Labour budget for workers - the Labour in their title. Keynesian stimulus at at time of what will probably become either a deep long-running recession or depression. State houses, infrastructure, jobs, retraining of the workforce affected by the changes to the economy. A point in some articles at least is that the government is constrained by uncertainty since it is still relatively early days, and we don't really know what the world economy will look like, so they can't really decide on or commit to major structural changes (and that's without consideration of getting a mandate at the upcoming election).
The longer conversation will be whether to change the social contract and if so, what it will look like. For all the criticism of the Grant Robertson in here, he did a pile of work on the Future of Work while in opposition, so he's probably one of the most knowledgeable in NZ on the subject.
I have my own views on the tax and welfare systems particularly, but if we are going to change the social contract, it is best done with an election mandate, just as it was last election where there was a debate on whether to change the tax brackets (resulting in lower taxes for most) or not do that and introduce the winter energy payment and increase working for families and the accommodation supplement instead.
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@Bones said in NZ Politics:
Well this doesn't tally with the last clip I saw of Cindy.
Cindy! Rah!
Was gardening today and had the ZB sports shows on in my ears. Heard a couple of absolute puff pieces on Cindy. Apparently Piers Morgan thinks she's awesome, and she is having breakfast out with Gaylord ... err ...ford
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@Siam said in NZ Politics:
People in the world don't regard nz like they did before.
This guy is residing in Holland but his observations on nz are worth hearing, if nothing else.Sorry but the first few seconds of this clip proves that the guy has no understanding about NZ but is using it as an example to waffle on about his ideology.
Apart from that he looks like the worst kind of hippy piston wristed gibbon. The arrogant sort.Why people watch this type of crap to form their own opinions is way beyond me.
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@Godder said in NZ Politics:
@Kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@Godder said in NZ Politics:
@JC as a Labour Party member, it's nowhere near the entire wish list.
I know this is probably a joke. But if this is representative of the attitude of Labour members the country is fucked.
JC posted a pretty somber take on the mismanagement going on and you joke about it not being the entire Wishlist?
It's a joke with a grain of truth - there are plenty of blogs and articles with the view that the budget hasn't done enough in various places, particularly the tax system, welfare and the environment. There are also articles along the whole continuum of how awful the budget is to how excellent it is, and all points in between, so it's not remotely a consensus of mismanagement.
I’m sure that if you look at articles in a fawning press you will indeed see lots of praise for the government. I’d be interested to see what they say but I will read it with the scepticism deserving of any plan that suggests a fifth of a trillion dollars of debt is a decent idea for a country of less than 5million people.
A point in some articles at least is that the government is constrained by uncertainty since it is still relatively early days, and we don't really know what the world economy will look like, so they can't really decide on or commit to major structural changes (and that's without consideration of getting a mandate at the upcoming election).
And you think uncertainty is a sound base from which to launch a potentially disastrous response?
The longer conversation will be whether to change the social contract and if so, what it will look like. For all the criticism of the Grant Robertson in here, he did a pile of work on the Future of Work while in opposition, so he's probably one of the most knowledgeable in NZ on the subject.
Grant Robertson has never had a first class mind. If he’s one of the most knowledgeable people on any subject we are probably in trouble. And I’ll counter your claim that he understands the future of work by stating there are many types of work and it’s not just wage and salary workers who do it. Robertson, and the government in general, appear to have no understanding, let alone empathy, with the self employed, business owners or those who run firms up and down the country. I guess if he is OK with the concept of everyone working for the state people like that serve no purpose anyway, so maybe it makes sense.
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@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
@Siam said in NZ Politics:
People in the world don't regard nz like they did before.
This guy is residing in Holland but his observations on nz are worth hearing, if nothing else.Sorry but the first few seconds of this clip proves that the guy has no understanding about NZ but is using it as an example to waffle on about his ideology.
Apart from that he looks like the worst kind of hippy piston wristed gibbon. The arrogant sort.Why people watch this type of crap to form their own opinions is way beyond me.
One video doesn't form an opinion but diversity of viewpoints does.
How do his looks matter to the words and sentences he is saying? You can't separate the 2?
If you didn't listen to it, why the critique?
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@Siam said in NZ Politics:
@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
@Siam said in NZ Politics:
People in the world don't regard nz like they did before.
This guy is residing in Holland but his observations on nz are worth hearing, if nothing else.Sorry but the first few seconds of this clip proves that the guy has no understanding about NZ but is using it as an example to waffle on about his ideology.
Apart from that he looks like the worst kind of hippy piston wristed gibbon. The arrogant sort.Why people watch this type of crap to form their own opinions is way beyond me.
One video doesn't form an opinion but diversity of viewpoints does.
A diversity of viewpoints that show some knowledge, yes. "NZ is kind of like the US but with earthquakes" ? So straight away any comment he has on NZ society is tainted as being from an incorrect starting position.
How do his looks matter to the words and sentences he is saying? You can't separate the 2?
Hence the words 'apart from that', but image does form part of the message. That is just reality. It gives you an indication (right or wrong) of where he may be coming from.
Also, his stuff has been referenced here before and I can't see why when he is an obvious conspiracy theorist, believer in the paranormal and occult and has a fascination with military ration packs. His youtube followers (as seen by the comments section) are also nutcase.If you didn't listen to it, why the critique?
As above. As soon as he stated categorically the 'NZ is a police state' then he wasn't worth my time.
As proof I could right now go and stand right outside of our parliament with a protest placard and at worst might get a cop having a chat to make sure I wasn't a risk of doing something worse.
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