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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@Kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@JC based on the polls, clearly the people value hope optimism and kindness, over a fighter and a doer. I'd agree neither team inspire the imagination
And that will likely carry then to a second term, and then people we see how vapid she and her team really are as the stark reality kicks in.
I see through her shtick now. Jacinda had a series of set piece speeches that she managed to shoe horn into situations. But when it came to actually giving tangible answers she was found wanting and resorted to her trademark frown. I give her government some credit for our covid19 response. But apart from that and Chch what have they done?
Not attributing this stuff entirely to Labour thinking, it could just be that they were more easily persuaded by the public service, but they have invested a lot in regenerating public infrastructure that has been neglected for decades. Hospitals and Defence are two areas that have benefitted in investment.
These are also ongoing commitments that generate a lot of work for the National target market of the self employed. Regional tradies subcontracting to big rebuilds.
Strange that they aren't promoting that (also the hospital spend was mentioned last night it was more in terms of pointing the finger at previous National govts) -
@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@Kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@JC based on the polls, clearly the people value hope optimism and kindness, over a fighter and a doer. I'd agree neither team inspire the imagination
And that will likely carry then to a second term, and then people we see how vapid she and her team really are as the stark reality kicks in.
I see through her shtick now. Jacinda had a series of set piece speeches that she managed to shoe horn into situations. But when it came to actually giving tangible answers she was found wanting and resorted to her trademark frown. I give her government some credit for our covid19 response. But apart from that and Chch what have they done?
Not attributing this stuff entirely to Labour thinking, it could just be that they were more easily persuaded by the public service, but they have invested a lot in regenerating public infrastructure that has been neglected for decades. Hospitals and Defence are two areas that have benefitted in investment.
These are also ongoing commitments that generate a lot of work for the National target market of the self employed. Regional tradies subcontracting to big rebuilds.
Strange that they aren't promoting that (also the hospital spend was mentioned last night it was more in terms of pointing the finger at previous National govts)It wasn't a great debate
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Thinking about all this rebuild work, the public services coordinating these projects could be mandated to take an approach of sourcing as much as possible from NZ companies. This may add some $ to budgets but would be a direct stimulus to existing businesses and opportunities for new ones.
I guess that much goes through NZ suppliers as is but a directive to approach with a mindset to source locally within range could be a very efficient stimulus method.
Way better than the Nats current idea that putting more money in higher earner's pockets will stimulate spending. -
@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
These are also ongoing commitments that generate a lot of work for the National target market of the self employed. Regional tradies subcontracting to big rebuilds.
Do you honestly think that's something they want to draw attention to? Subbies have been hosed time and again. Fletchers, Ebert, Arrow, Stanley/Tallwood have all been disastrous for subcontractors. It's an awful way to get work to small businesses.
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@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
Thinking about all this rebuild work, the public services coordinating these projects could be mandated to take an approach of sourcing as much as possible from NZ companies. This may add some $ to budgets but would be a direct stimulus to existing businesses and opportunities for new ones.
I guess that much goes through NZ suppliers as is but a directive to approach with a mindset to source locally within range could be a very efficient stimulus method.
Way better than the Nats current idea that putting more money in higher earner's pockets will stimulate spending.Are you seriously trying to suggest that most of the near-term spending on the infrastructure projects won't be going to consultants and professionals, and large corporates who will disproportionately compensate their execs and managers? The money is going into the higher earner's pockets anyway. At least National's way avoids much of the leeching bureaucracy.
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@JC said in NZ Politics:
@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
These are also ongoing commitments that generate a lot of work for the National target market of the self employed. Regional tradies subcontracting to big rebuilds.
Do you honestly think that's something they want to draw attention to? Subbies have been hosed time and again. Fletchers, Ebert, Arrow, Stanley/Tallwood have all been disastrous for subcontractors. It's an awful way to get work to small businesses.
Much of what I am talking about is govt guaranteed work so far preferable to subbies than a private sector build.
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@JC said in NZ Politics:
@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
Thinking about all this rebuild work, the public services coordinating these projects could be mandated to take an approach of sourcing as much as possible from NZ companies. This may add some $ to budgets but would be a direct stimulus to existing businesses and opportunities for new ones.
I guess that much goes through NZ suppliers as is but a directive to approach with a mindset to source locally within range could be a very efficient stimulus method.
Way better than the Nats current idea that putting more money in higher earner's pockets will stimulate spending.Are you seriously trying to suggest that most of the near-term spending on the infrastructure projects won't be going to consultants and professionals, and large corporates who will disproportionately compensate their execs and managers? The money is going into the higher earner's pockets anyway. At least National's way avoids much of the leeching bureaucracy.
I get what you are saying but for one the work needs to be done anyway. Secondly my suggestion at least directs more toward a spectrum of earners and provides jobs, whereas a tax cut doesn’t
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@ploughboy said in NZ Politics:
@Crucial
and how will jobs be saved with an increase in minimum wage ,a xtra public holiday and doubling of sick leave.Judith tried to make the point that the strain falls to business owners. No point in raising wages and granting more holidays if we lose existing jobs because it causes some businesses to either fold or let staff go to cut costs
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@ploughboy said in NZ Politics:
@Crucial
and how will jobs be saved with an increase in minimum wage ,a xtra public holiday and doubling of sick leave.Why are you asking me? I’m not an advocate. I was discussing something else entirely.
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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
Funny how someone who came closest to having a private sector paid job was a part time gig at the Morrinsville chip shop would assume business owners will just dip into their bottomless font of cash to make her workers' dreams come true
A bit naive. For sure there is a tipping point and I’m not entirely sure that they understand we’re that should lie.
However these same arguments have been held since Adam was a cowboy.
5 day working week! How will my business survive? The world will collapse!
Businesses adapt and the world changes.
Maybe it is more important to have more leave in these times of two income earners? Maybe it isn’t sustainable as a society to have business plans based around paying non living wages? Does that societal need outweigh the commercial parts of the economy?
The thresholds for these decisions constantly change and get tested. Up to the pollies to sell us the change or not.
I do think that many of the business victims of COVID would have been running on a knife edge anyway and we need to decide if that is really a beneficial situation for people to be encouraged into.
There are certainly short term benefits to that but also pitfalls for a country if we rely on unsustainable models. -
On the Sick Leave thing. I don't think it needs to be doubled. They should just legislate that it can accumulate.
In my experience the only people who consistently take their 5 days p.a. are the malingerers who treat it as holiday entitlement and fuck off with giving them an extra week and the poor bastards who get something serious.
Some companies don't allow you to accumulate sick leave. Legislating for this would still restrict the cheaters to 5 days p.a. as they always take all of it but protect those that really need help.
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@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
On the Sick Leave thing. I don't think it needs to be doubled. They should just legislate that it can accumulate.
In my experience the only people who consistently take their 5 days p.a. are the malingerers who treat it as holiday entitlement and fuck off with giving them an extra week and the poor bastards who get something serious.
Some companies don't allow you to accumulate sick leave. Legislating for this would still restrict the cheaters to 5 days p.a. as they always take all of it but protect those that really need help.
That's really sensible.
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@dogmeat at my last job, I accumulated 100 days sick leave, then it stopped accumulating, unfortunately they didnt pay me that out when they made me redundant...funnily I had had maybe 2 sick days in 5 years, yet the weeks leading into my last day there I had half a dozen or so, stress I reckon haha
I think my current job has 10 days (been here for 5 years) I just checked, my last sick day was in 2017.
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@Kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@JC said in NZ Politics:
@Crucial Sorry buddy, you fail the compassion test.
I was shaking my head at the lack of empathy. That's people losing jobs, livelihoods and in some cases houses and their family. Not to mention suicide.
What bullshit. I have a heap of empathy with small businesses in that situation. I used to be one of them.
Putting empathy aside though I can also say through experience that some businesses on the edge add little to the economy in either positive or non negative terms.
We have become the nation of shopkeepers and that energy and productivity should be found another outlet. At least we should try to find those outlets. -
@Crucial said in NZ Politics:
@Kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@JC said in NZ Politics:
@Crucial Sorry buddy, you fail the compassion test.
I was shaking my head at the lack of empathy. That's people losing jobs, livelihoods and in some cases houses and their family. Not to mention suicide.
What bullshit. I have a heap of empathy with small businesses in that situation. I used to be one of them.
Putting empathy aside though I can also say through experience that some businesses on the edge add little to the economy in either positive or non negative terms.
We have become the nation of shopkeepers and that energy and productivity should be found another outlet. At least we should try to find those outlets.Perhaps you could have another shot at this sentence then;
"I do think that many of the business victims of COVID would have been running on a knife edge anyway and we need to decide if that is really a beneficial situation for people to be encouraged into"
Because it reads terribly to me.
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