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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@No-Quarter said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia look, I know where you're coming from. I probably would have made a similar comment a few years ago - you're standing up for women's rights so the logical thing to do is to say "ask women what they think" as you'd expect them to back up your statement. Why wouldn't they? You're on their side.
But that doesn't really work in reality, as we both agree you can't lump people together based on a biological trait and expect them to all think the same thing. Another example is the recent march against hate in the UK. You had gay people taking part and speaking at the march against radical Islam, and you also had gay people on the other side of the fence marching against Islamophobia. So when I see people use general terms like the "gay community" I am suspicious as they're basically lumping a bunch of completely different individuals together based on their sexuality which is 1) out of their control and 2) doesn't define them as people in any way. It's a nonsense term when dealing with the real world.
What I've learnt is that if you make a statement that you cannot apply logically in the real world, then that should tell you the statement is flawed. So much of what the hard left/SJWs say makes no sense when you try and apply it to the real world, because the real world is so much more complicated then what they make out (especially in regards to "the oppressor" and "the oppressed").
Thanks for taking the time to respond with civility. I get your point even though I dont necessarily agree with how you got there, but Im cool with that.
Especially seen part of how he got there was watching the film we are talking about .. how unacceptable.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
I still can't believe that you think the name of this film has somehow impacted on how it has been received in Australia. You honestly think that there would be zero controversy if she'd simply called it "Men and women" or "Men have problems"?
BTW I did a Google search. In addition to the definition provided by the Dutch Master, there was also this from Urban Dictionary:
'Red pill' has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a "normal" life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be."
Seems like a pretty apt title to me, particularly as the filmmaker had to challenge her own biases and worldview.
I didn't make that claim so I'm not going to rebut your argument.
When I googled TheRedPill, I got 6 links concerning the insalubrious side of TRP, 2 links to the movie, 1 link to their reddit forum & 1 link to urban dictionary.
Also, I now know that it was created by a former Republican representative. Despite being his own creation, he tried to distance himself from initially so it seems its toxicity was not lost on him. He ended up resigning after his identity was made public.
You claimed that the name meant the film couldn't be taken seriously and that "most people" would connect it to some obscure term used by the alt-right. I respectfully disagree and am also unsure what this has to do with the discussion, which was principally about how this film has been received in Australia. Unless of course you do think that the "outcry" is because of the name and not the actual content of the film.
Cmon mate, you're strawmanning too. I didnt say it couldnt be taken seriously, I said it robbed it of credibility, not ALL credibility. Yes I think it was a factor however I did not make any claim that there would be zero controversy were it named something else.
BTW, TheRedPill is not an obscure Alt-Right term. TheRedPill started off as a pick up artist whoops I mean sexual strategy forum, its alleged at some point Alt-Right followers started to onboard TRP followers and apparently there is now a TheRedPillRight. TRP originally cited the Matrix as the origin of its name.
What are you talking about? Most people have never heard of Alt-right, let alone the red pill and yet you claim using this name has had a detrimental effect on the film? That's just complete bollocks. This film is "controversial" because of the content not the bloody name.
I never said the content wasnt controversial and I never said alt-right was widely known.
The alt right has nothing to do with it... that is just a bizarre straw man you introduced.
You dont seem to understand what a strawman is. Yes I raised that the alt-right have some history with TRP but I did not misrepresent anyone elses argument in order to make it weaker.
TRP reddit group is irrelevant to the film, you tried to make some bizarre link. Then you decided to bring up the alt right.. I am guessing in some distraction from the actual topic. So yes.. a straw man.
Distractions are called Red herrings, not strawmen.
No.. you constructed a position for the film and attacked it, a position the film does not take.
Dude, if you and I cant even agree on what constitutes a red herring or a strawman, then we're unlikely to agree on anything. I suggest we move on.
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@phoenetia I suggest you watch the film before telling others what is in it or how it is done.
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@No-Quarter said in Gender Studies:
Good to see Susan Devoy keeping herself busy/employed while pissing away tax payer money on completely pointless expensive advertising campaigns...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/93710789/dont-let-it-slide-what-to-do-when-someone-is-racist
Edit - didn't want to derail this thread but figured this is as good a place as any to put this.
Fark that. Leave it to puppets to speak the truth
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So I was watching the NZ Maori get destroyed at a depressingly quiet bar in Melbourne last night when suddenly a huge group of mostly blokes walked in filling the place up. I'd had a couple ales so went over for a chat and turns out they were the mens rights movement. They had some event at another venue but it was shut down for security concerns and seeing my empty rugby pub decided to move there. Really interesting blokes, totally the opposite of what you might think of them just from main stream media coverage. Some incredibly deep philosophical thinkers. There were some ladies as well, had a chat to one of the 'Honey Badgers' whom I understand featured in the Red Pill movie. Need to give it a watch soon I think.
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This was actually a good read ( I was sent it, I don't visit the guardian site); I may even read a couple of these books:
Feminists do not need to have read Butler or Beauvoir to be influenced by them; many Marxists, after all, have not read Marx. And of course, the trans experience did not begin with Butler. Any discussion of trans identities and politics must start with trans authors. But if the impasse between Beauvoirian, gender-critical feminists on the one hand, and Butlerian and queer feminists on the other, is ever to be overcome, it is essential to acknowledge the philosophical basis as well as the practical implications of their disagreement. In particular, it should be recognised that, as the scope of the terms “trans” and “transgender” have expanded to include a range of identities, no longer referring only to people who have undergone a medical or surgical transition, the relationship between trans activism and feminism has also shifted. That’s because of the importance placed by gender-critical feminists, including me, on the body. Of course we don’t agree on everything, any more than LGBTQ activists do. But broadly speaking, our analysis is that women’s lives are shaped by their physical differences from males as well as the cultural meanings derived from these. The exploitation of women’s domestic and caring labour, for example, is linked to (though not justified by) our role in reproduction. Female anatomy makes us vulnerable in specific ways to sexual violence, such as pregnancy from rape. Our breasts are the most common site of cancers among women.
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@TeWaio said in Gender Studies:
Have you read the article? I just did and it's a strangely compelling read.
It's basically a black woman, who really enjoyed fried chicken in her youth. And then decided that it was something racist, because people of colour generally enjoyed fried chicken. So she then became ashamed of her love of fried chicken and instead, tried to make posh fried chicken her thing. She then talks about the origin of the dish, slavery, deep south USA etc etc. And puts together some rather thin parallels and and decides that it's time to grow up.
She has now got through her massive drama and is no longer ashamed of the fact she likes fried chicken. She feels she's free of the racism around it. You go girl, you won (against a battle you basically invented in your head).
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@MajorRage I did read the article, and thought it was so cringe that I just posted a screenshot in here for headline lols. The part where she served fancier Japanese style fried chicken at her supper club, even though she didn't like it as much was epic.
Gender Studies