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@sparky said in US Politics:
There are reports that Betsy De Vos, the Education Secretary, perhaps the US Cabinet member closest to Donald Trump has resigned. Are we looking at some sort of 25th Amendment scenario?
Why? If Trump has really lost its only another two weeks until he's out. And if the military step in any 25th amendment action would be irrelevant
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@Winger who said the military are coming in?
they way ive had it explained is they may invoke the 25th because he can still do a lot in 2 weeks and if people are concerned about is mental state then it is the option on the table
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
@Winger who said the military are coming in?
they way ive had it explained is they may invoke the 25th because he can still do a lot in 2 weeks and if people are concerned about is mental state then it is the option on the table
In particular, he wouldn't be able to pardon anyone else, like his family.
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Where was Gerard Butler when you needed him? Out training dragons again?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
But how? Be honest now, you wouldn’t be satisfied with any outcome that legitimised the Democrats’ claim on the Presidency, would you
100% not correct. For all its faults the people deciding with FAIR and legal elections is by far the best system. So if Biden fairly won and he can be voted out next time fair enough
But my suspicion has been that elections in the West have been rigged for quite some time. And current members of Congress and the Senate ON BOTH SIDES are benefiting from this corrupt system. And that's why no-one wants to look at it. But if it was looked at openly and fairly I and most would accept it (truth has a way of being accepted. Lies and deceitfulness on the other hand ...)
By who?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@taniwharugby said in US Politics:
@JC plus how many people would need to be involved for it to work, and therefore the more people involved the more chance of people finding out.
Without looking at the probability of the same occurring on the other side too, for a conspiracy of this level, you'd need so many people involved, and they all need to have the same goal (I can understand how 411,000 people might have conspired together for the moon landing given they all wanted to be part of it)
That would include the state Governors, most of whom are Republicans. A bipartisan plot to unseat Trump? Fantasy
Then why not look at the (large amount of) evidence that has been gathered (including how an extra 28 million - or 22% more - people voted this time) And clear it up. (And money is a strong corrupted factor)
They were paid to vote?
BTW How is that evidence?
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Further to that a quick Google firstly determined that the US population had increased by about 7 million people (
A further Google (to the ever reliable Wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections) showed thst the "Voter Eligible Population" had grown by around 9 million.
Also, that the percent of the "VEP" who voted increased from 59.2% to someshere between 66% & 72%.
Increase in percentage turn out is in no doubt due to the polarisation effected by DJT. Both sides kept saying that this was the most important election ever. Going to have an effect.
The above figures also indicate that between 74 & 80 million eligible voters didn't. How many votes did DJT get?
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I would think that in a massively divided country voter turnout will significantly increase anyway. Whether pro Trump, or anti, it was worth having their say, so they did.
Add to that @booboo 's figures and there were just more voters. The other 80 million might want to consider it.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
These guys are just a core of conspiracy theorists, surrounded by opportunists, and a smattering of simpletons, having a giant sook about an election they're too stupid to accept they lost.
Sounds like many of Remainers we have in the UK.
Sorry, just to correct you, that is the domain of "leavers"!
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
These guys are just a core of conspiracy theorists, surrounded by opportunists, and a smattering of simpletons, having a giant sook about an election they're too stupid to accept they lost.
Sounds like many of Remainers we have in the UK.
Sorry, just to correct you, that is the domain of "leavers"!
Please explain?
Unless I'm mistaken Remainers have lost the referendum and (at least) two general elections since, and are still whinging.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being having anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
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@JC said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
The issue now is millions of people have lost faith in the election process. And both the Supreme court and Senate and Congress failed to address these issues
I would suggest that the 81,282,903 people who voted for the winner think the outcome restored faith in the election process. And probably so do a sizeable majority of the 74m who voted for Trump. Your premise is based on a completely partisan view that you are projecting onto the entire populace of the USA.
If the election was fair why not shine a light of all the 'false' claims of election fraud. As it is one foundation that the US stands on (free and fair elections) has been destroyed.
There are 1000 courts waiting with their flashlights to shine the light. Nobody has, with any credibility, shown them something to point them at. Honestly Winger, some of the arguments that have been made are intellectually embarrassing. The observers one, for example, that you discussed above. OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified), and how that is sufficient basis to halt or overturn the entire election (incoherently argued at best). As a result the entire argument was akin to saying that because cops can’t come into your house whenever they want you’re almost certainly committing a crime in there. It’s insane!
Well written @JC
Also recall that Giuliani in court himself when asked by the judge if they were alleging fraud, replied, "no we are not alleging fraud your honour".
As usual, what is said in public with so much pathetic bluff and bluster, and what is said when there are real consequences on the line, i.e. a court of law, the rhetoric quickly disappears.
Another thing to recall is that after the 2016 election where Trump and his enablers pushed "election fraud" because he couldn't stand the idea that Hillary bettered him in the popular vote, he established a committee to investigate election fraud. What were the results of that investigation?
The committee was quietly disbanded after it found absolutely no evidence or proof of election fraud.
One last point, there have been a couple of charges laid, both were Trump supporters.
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@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being have anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
Respectfully, I disagree. To me, both causes have very legitimate concerns. Sure, the BLM has some issues but at its heart, it is attempting to bring to the fore the fact of systemic racism including that within many police departments in the U.S.
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy, both of which are appalling. And quite frankly, they are the result of the rise of violent right wing extremism which is far, far more dangerous.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy,
Of course. By rioting and burning building down etc. And beating people up. And all for a good cause.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being have anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
Respectfully, I disagree. To me, both causes have very legitimate concerns. Sure, the BLM has some issues but at its heart, it is attempting to bring to the fore the fact of systemic racism including that within many police departments in the U.S.
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy, both of which are appalling. And quite frankly, they are the result of the rise of violent right wing extremism which is far, far more dangerous.
Antifa are the most ironically named organisation. Actual fascists and shown over and over to be violent thugs.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
As usual, what is said in public with so much pathetic bluff and bluster, and what is said when there are real consequences on the line, i.e. a court of law, the rhetoric quickly disappears.
A sworn affidavit has real consequences. And have you even looked at what is available in public. Or are you relying on the mainstream media?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
As usual, what is said in public with so much pathetic bluff and bluster, and what is said when there are real consequences on the line, i.e. a court of law, the rhetoric quickly disappears.
A sworn affidavit has real consequences.
Of course it is swearing a false statement. But practically speaking, people lie under oath all the time and they usually get away with it. In a typical year, October 2011 to September 2012, the number of people convicted of perjury in the whole of the USA was 144.
As @Godder explained earlier, affidavits are entered into evidence. But their real usefulness is as corroboration of other evidence. On their own they don’t really help a judge to decide that the relatively high bar for interfering in the electoral process is cleared.
I have to say that the majority of people on this forum seem to me to lean slightly to the right, or at the very least have no love for the Democrats. It’s probably a sympathetic room for airing any actual evidence of election fraud. If you can’t sway an audience like this that there is something very wrong it’s no surprise that judges remain unmoved.
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