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Further to that a quick Google firstly determined that the US population had increased by about 7 million people (
A further Google (to the ever reliable Wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections) showed thst the "Voter Eligible Population" had grown by around 9 million.
Also, that the percent of the "VEP" who voted increased from 59.2% to someshere between 66% & 72%.
Increase in percentage turn out is in no doubt due to the polarisation effected by DJT. Both sides kept saying that this was the most important election ever. Going to have an effect.
The above figures also indicate that between 74 & 80 million eligible voters didn't. How many votes did DJT get?
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I would think that in a massively divided country voter turnout will significantly increase anyway. Whether pro Trump, or anti, it was worth having their say, so they did.
Add to that @booboo 's figures and there were just more voters. The other 80 million might want to consider it.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
These guys are just a core of conspiracy theorists, surrounded by opportunists, and a smattering of simpletons, having a giant sook about an election they're too stupid to accept they lost.
Sounds like many of Remainers we have in the UK.
Sorry, just to correct you, that is the domain of "leavers"!
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
These guys are just a core of conspiracy theorists, surrounded by opportunists, and a smattering of simpletons, having a giant sook about an election they're too stupid to accept they lost.
Sounds like many of Remainers we have in the UK.
Sorry, just to correct you, that is the domain of "leavers"!
Please explain?
Unless I'm mistaken Remainers have lost the referendum and (at least) two general elections since, and are still whinging.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being having anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
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@JC said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
The issue now is millions of people have lost faith in the election process. And both the Supreme court and Senate and Congress failed to address these issues
I would suggest that the 81,282,903 people who voted for the winner think the outcome restored faith in the election process. And probably so do a sizeable majority of the 74m who voted for Trump. Your premise is based on a completely partisan view that you are projecting onto the entire populace of the USA.
If the election was fair why not shine a light of all the 'false' claims of election fraud. As it is one foundation that the US stands on (free and fair elections) has been destroyed.
There are 1000 courts waiting with their flashlights to shine the light. Nobody has, with any credibility, shown them something to point them at. Honestly Winger, some of the arguments that have been made are intellectually embarrassing. The observers one, for example, that you discussed above. OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified), and how that is sufficient basis to halt or overturn the entire election (incoherently argued at best). As a result the entire argument was akin to saying that because cops can’t come into your house whenever they want you’re almost certainly committing a crime in there. It’s insane!
Well written @JC
Also recall that Giuliani in court himself when asked by the judge if they were alleging fraud, replied, "no we are not alleging fraud your honour".
As usual, what is said in public with so much pathetic bluff and bluster, and what is said when there are real consequences on the line, i.e. a court of law, the rhetoric quickly disappears.
Another thing to recall is that after the 2016 election where Trump and his enablers pushed "election fraud" because he couldn't stand the idea that Hillary bettered him in the popular vote, he established a committee to investigate election fraud. What were the results of that investigation?
The committee was quietly disbanded after it found absolutely no evidence or proof of election fraud.
One last point, there have been a couple of charges laid, both were Trump supporters.
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@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being have anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
Respectfully, I disagree. To me, both causes have very legitimate concerns. Sure, the BLM has some issues but at its heart, it is attempting to bring to the fore the fact of systemic racism including that within many police departments in the U.S.
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy, both of which are appalling. And quite frankly, they are the result of the rise of violent right wing extremism which is far, far more dangerous.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy,
Of course. By rioting and burning building down etc. And beating people up. And all for a good cause.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being have anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
Respectfully, I disagree. To me, both causes have very legitimate concerns. Sure, the BLM has some issues but at its heart, it is attempting to bring to the fore the fact of systemic racism including that within many police departments in the U.S.
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy, both of which are appalling. And quite frankly, they are the result of the rise of violent right wing extremism which is far, far more dangerous.
Antifa are the most ironically named organisation. Actual fascists and shown over and over to be violent thugs.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
As usual, what is said in public with so much pathetic bluff and bluster, and what is said when there are real consequences on the line, i.e. a court of law, the rhetoric quickly disappears.
A sworn affidavit has real consequences. And have you even looked at what is available in public. Or are you relying on the mainstream media?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
As usual, what is said in public with so much pathetic bluff and bluster, and what is said when there are real consequences on the line, i.e. a court of law, the rhetoric quickly disappears.
A sworn affidavit has real consequences.
Of course it is swearing a false statement. But practically speaking, people lie under oath all the time and they usually get away with it. In a typical year, October 2011 to September 2012, the number of people convicted of perjury in the whole of the USA was 144.
As @Godder explained earlier, affidavits are entered into evidence. But their real usefulness is as corroboration of other evidence. On their own they don’t really help a judge to decide that the relatively high bar for interfering in the electoral process is cleared.
I have to say that the majority of people on this forum seem to me to lean slightly to the right, or at the very least have no love for the Democrats. It’s probably a sympathetic room for airing any actual evidence of election fraud. If you can’t sway an audience like this that there is something very wrong it’s no surprise that judges remain unmoved.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy,
Of course. By rioting and burning building down etc. And beating people up. And all for a good cause.
39th of December 2020 ... I'm agreeing with Winger ...
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@JC said in US Politics:
If you can’t sway an audience like this that there is something very wrong it’s no surprise that judges remain unmoved.
Its too much for the majority to accept (or even consider) this level of corruption (with the media involved). The West are supposed to be the good guys. The Chinese and Russians the bad guys (who rig election if held). The good guys don't do this.
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@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being have anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
Respectfully, I disagree. To me, both causes have very legitimate concerns. Sure, the BLM has some issues but at its heart, it is attempting to bring to the fore the fact of systemic racism including that within many police departments in the U.S.
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy, both of which are appalling. And quite frankly, they are the result of the rise of violent right wing extremism which is far, far more dangerous.
Antifa are the most ironically named organisation. Actual fascists and shown over and over to be violent thugs.
Again, respectfully disagree. ATIFA = Anti-Fascist and that's exactly what they are. They rose up as an organic response and counter to the growing right wing extremism. They show up as a counter protesters to the right wing nut jobs and I have all the respect in the world for that.
Clearly, the real "violent thugs" that present a real and present danger is the real fascists, the right wing, white nationalists and supremacists. Groups like the Proud Boys and many many others are a far greater threat, it's why the FBI has labeled right wing nationalism/white supremacy as being a much greater risk.
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@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@RoninWC said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
That's a disgusting statement. Reading this made my skin crawl.
I think you are confusing legitimate concerns of African Americans with the organisation called BLM. Because the later has serious problems, not least being have anti-Semitic leaders.
And Antifa are violent scum.
Respectfully, I disagree. To me, both causes have very legitimate concerns. Sure, the BLM has some issues but at its heart, it is attempting to bring to the fore the fact of systemic racism including that within many police departments in the U.S.
Also, IMHO, ATIFA are not an organisation as such but it certainly stands against Fascism and white supremacy, both of which are appalling. And quite frankly, they are the result of the rise of violent right wing extremism which is far, far more dangerous.
Antifa are the most ironically named organisation. Actual fascists and shown over and over to be violent thugs.
Again, respectfully disagree. ATIFA = Anti-Fascist and that's exactly what they are. They rose up as an organic response and counter to the growing right wing extremism. They show up as a counter protesters to the right wing nut jobs and I have all the respect in the world for that.
Clearly, the real "violent thugs" that present a real and present danger is the real fascists, the right wing, white nationalists and supremacists. Groups like the Proud Boys and many many others are a far greater threat, it's why the FBI has labeled right wing nationalism/white supremacy as being a much greater risk.
Sorry? Antics are not violent thugs?
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
@Winger you believe hundreds/thousands of people would be complicit in national level voter fraud but not that individuals would lie under oath?
And for what? There’s no guaranteed personal gain here. The best that can happen is your team wins. Conversely the downside if you get convicted is catastrophic.
You’re not just talking about people being reckless with their vote, you’re talking about career officials conspiring to commit fraud and solicit votes in their public office. The penalties for these people are massive. They will get fined. They will likely go to jail. They’ll lose their jobs. Most of them will be lawyers, so they’re disbarred too, so they’ll never work again. And they’d do this for Joe Biden? Seriously?
For a huge network of them to do this believing they have impunity makes no sense. For each of them it’s a simple cost-benefit calculation, with little benefit if you win and huge cost if you lose.Multiply that by the number of people you need to get this fix in and I just can’t see how it could logistically be done.
US Politics