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One of my biggest concerns is the longer the lockdown the more ‘acccepted’ it becomes that indoors in your home is safe, outdoors is dangerous.
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
One of my biggest concerns is the longer the lockdown the more ‘acccepted’ it becomes that indoors in your home is safe, outdoors is dangerous.
I get this. I don’t want to be in a perpetual mask wearing society.
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@donsteppa Top post/rant/series of muddled thoughts.
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@donsteppa good points as always. Walling off the elderly or vulnerable could be voluntary though. Has anyone ever asked the elderly about their preferences for locking down?
My fear for the whole covid thing has been not the virus, but the observable behaviour of political leaders, media and the undeniable wealth and business transfer to huge corporations at the expense of small business.
The authoritarian approach, police enforcement and hefty fines used to enforce the restrictions on personal movement and freedom has been an ominous hammer on a population whose collective goodwill and overall compliance have made lockdowns a success. The people have slowed covid, not the politicians.
I accept the current procedures as one way of successfully dealing with and delaying covid transmission but will continue to question the roles and decisions of governments during all this. The virus hasn't changed our lives, government reactions have.
One day the virus will be gone from our lives but will the governments ever be?
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
One of my biggest concerns is the longer the lockdown the more ‘acccepted’ it becomes that indoors in your home is safe, outdoors is dangerous.
I get this. I don’t want to be in a perpetual mask wearing society.
But you get to wear theatrical capes and rather sick throwing daggers! Hugo Weaving was well before his time.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@donsteppa good points as always. Walling off the elderly or vulnerable could be voluntary though. Has anyone ever asked the elderly about their preferences for locking down?
My fear for the whole covid thing has been not the virus, but the observable behaviour of political leaders, media and the undeniable wealth and business transfer to huge corporations at the expense of small business.
The authoritarian approach, police enforcement and hefty fines used to enforce the restrictions on personal movement and freedom has been an ominous hammer on a population whose collective goodwill and overall compliance have made lockdowns a success. The people have slowed covid, not the politicians.
I accept the current procedures as one way of successfully dealing with and delaying covid transmission but will continue to question the roles and decisions of governments during all this. The virus hasn't changed our lives, government reactions have.
One day the virus will be gone from our lives but will the governments ever be?
This virus is going nowhere
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@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Walling off the elderly or vulnerable could be voluntary though. Has anyone ever asked the elderly about their preferences for locking down?
It could be and should be. Have we ever had law abiding healthy people confined in this way before during peace times. Yet we all got by well enough. Now out of control nanny states are running rampant. And almost 12 months later we don't really seem to be any better off. Temporary restrictions are starting to have a permanent look. And someone with a sore throat (confirmed as Covid with tests that aren't 100%) = lock the country down again just in case
My view has always been
Govts to once again respect our right and freedoms except (maybe) have restrictions on the sick with symptoms (like a high temperature of coughing non stop). And people collectively need to understand. Give Govts to much power and they will go crazy. It seems to be the nature of the beast.
Education.Lots of it. And then start trusting people to do whats best not treating everyone like naughty children
Provide money to support the vulnerable. Say free vaccines if they want to do this. Or home deliveries. Even free vitamin / herbal supplements or water purifiers etc
Investigate more fully (and fairly) some of these (cheap) treatments like hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin.
Do a sensible risk cost assessment. And accept that Govt's can't ever save and protect everyone -
@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@donsteppa good points as always. Walling off the elderly or vulnerable could be voluntary though. Has anyone ever asked the elderly about their preferences for locking down?
My fear for the whole covid thing has been not the virus, but the observable behaviour of political leaders, media and the undeniable wealth and business transfer to huge corporations at the expense of small business.
The authoritarian approach, police enforcement and hefty fines used to enforce the restrictions on personal movement and freedom has been an ominous hammer on a population whose collective goodwill and overall compliance have made lockdowns a success. The people have slowed covid, not the politicians.
I accept the current procedures as one way of successfully dealing with and delaying covid transmission but will continue to question the roles and decisions of governments during all this. The virus hasn't changed our lives, government reactions have.
One day the virus will be gone from our lives but will the governments ever be?
Whilst I lean towards your side of this, what has been staggering to me is the level of public support for the hammer approach taken. Witness the political domination of NZ, QLD, WA, and even Dan bloody Andrews in VIC.
Unfortunately, this appears to be what we want.
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UK road toll 2018: 1770
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-provisional-estimates-year-ending-june-2018#:~:text=Statistics on reported road casualties,severities%2C a decrease of 6%25UK COVID 19 death toll since 15 February 2020 (close enough to exactly one year): 120,365
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so what is happening with the CV of late?
Seems the majority of the world, numbers are dropping off, even Mexico and Brazil seem to have passed thier peak, India, well who knows about thier numbers which are looking superb as well, and I doubt they are getting vaccines to the swathes of vulnerable people ( I realise in some of these countries the true numbers of infected/dead are likely much higher)
Can understand the massive drop off in infections and deaths in the likes of the UK, US with massive vaccine roll outs, but overall is the virus itself petering out, or mutated to become less infectious or deadly so it is able to survive?
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@taniwharugby There could well be a seasonal element to it, which has been suggested as a possibility. The lockdowns in Europe will also be having an effect and then as you say the vaccine roll out. Let’s hope!
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@voodoo There's widespread support in NZ because only 25 people have dies and life apart from overseas travel is pretty much normal. Unemployment falling we were only in recession for one quarter. The sun is shining etc.
Plus wherever we get our news its fucking Armageddon wherever they didn't take their medicine.
Plus cultural cringe. Look at us look at us. Aren't we clever? Did you know we have hobbits too?
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@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@donsteppa good points as always. Walling off the elderly or vulnerable could be voluntary though. Has anyone ever asked the elderly about their preferences for locking down?
I think there's an interesting cultural/world view aspect to it all that differs significantly. After the end of Level 3 in May last year I had an good chat with a volunteer who had been on a regional iwi-organised checkpoint during lockdown. Paraphrasing, for them it was entirely based on "protecting our Kaumātua and Kuia". Politics and the media held no sway.
Since then, I've watched some of the passionate arguments and statistics about how Covid only really affects the elderly and vulnerable ; and wryly thought that those arguments will reinforce the views and actions of that iwi, rather than change them.
I saw something similar out of Korea late last year, though I haven't looked more widely
"The majority of Korean people are supporting this type of very aggressive contact tracing at the potential cost or expense of privacy," Kwon Soonman, public health professor at Seoul National University, told ABC News. "There is a kind of group pressure that I should not harm my neighbor, because it's an infectious disease."
@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
My fear for the whole covid thing has been not the virus, but the observable behaviour of political leaders, media and the undeniable wealth and business transfer to huge corporations at the expense of small business.
As a slightly relevant aside, I think the (relative ) importance of small business is one of those wonderful NZ number eight wire stories, but gets overstated.
- "97 of all NZ businesses are small businesses" - which is impressive, but also
- "they employ 29% of all NZ employees"
Most people I've talked to had had assumed that second figure would be much larger. I've been too lazy to check whether seven out of ten people working for medium and large companies is the same internationally, but my guess is it's in the ballpark.
Bigger businesses doing well probably benefits more people than we tend to expect. And also to the smaller businesses who contract to them and to govt departments for services, etc.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo There's widespread support in NZ because only 25 people have dies and life apart from overseas travel is pretty much normal. Unemployment falling we were only in recession for one quarter. The sun is shining etc.
Plus wherever we get our news its fucking Armageddon wherever they didn't take their medicine.
Plus cultural cringe. Look at us look at us. Aren't we clever? Did you know we have hobbits too?
"Here are lots of photos of awesome natural scenery that you can't travel to yet. But what do you think of it?"
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - Overall:
"Here are lots of photos of awesome natural scenery that you can't travel to yet. But what do you think of it?"
The world reacts!
@Catogrande do you mean summer/winter seasonal or just the cyclical for the virus? Given many parts of the world are heading out of summer but numbers seem to still be on decline.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - Overall:
"Here are lots of photos of awesome natural scenery that you can't travel to yet. But what do you think of it?"
The world reacts!
I'm awaiting the glorious day of Peak Cringe; when a journalist will doorstop an arriving celebrity as soon as they step out of the airbridge to ask them what they think of NZ so far.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
so what is happening with the CV of late?
Seems the majority of the world, numbers are dropping off, even Mexico and Brazil seem to have passed thier peak, India, well who knows about thier numbers which are looking superb as well, and I doubt they are getting vaccines to the swathes of vulnerable people ( I realise in some of these countries the true numbers of infected/dead are likely much higher)
Can understand the massive drop off in infections and deaths in the likes of the UK, US with massive vaccine roll outs, but overall is the virus itself petering out, or mutated to become less infectious or deadly so it is able to survive?
I'd say it's mostly passing the seasonal peak (and any distancing or lockdown measures). Don't think vaccines would have had much effect yet.
It's mostly a Europe, North America and Latin America disease as far as the global reporting numbers go. So as most of those continents pass their winter peak the number go down.
This image from the Economist.
I have crudely circled the only periods of significant summer peaks. USA and Mexico and India last NH summer, South Africa this SH summer and Brazil this SH summer -
@Rapido has pretty much answered for me in regard to the seasonal impact. A lot of the big numbers are NH and we’re coming through our winter. It had previously been posited that we would have a second wave in the winter and that this might be worse.
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Initial analysis of real-world data pointing to a single dose of Pfizer-BioNTech or Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine cuts hospital admissions by 94%
The UK Covid-19 vaccination programme is already reducing deaths, hospital admissions and the R number, according to the largest analysis of real-world data. Separate studies released today show that after a single dose the Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines provide strong protection against severe illness even in those who still become infected. An analysis of people who received the Pfizer vaccine also provides the clearest evidence yet that it stops more than two thirds of symptomatic and asymptomatic cases, meaning that it significantly cuts transmission. The data comes from comparisons of those who received the vaccine versus similar groups who have not, and includes a study of 23,000 healthcare workers who were regularly swabbed to check for infection. By the fourth week after the initial dose, the Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines reduced the chances of being admitted to hospital with Covid-19 by up to 85 per cent and 94 per cent respectively, according to Scottish researchers. Among the over-80s, vaccination was linked to an 81 per cent reduction in the risk of hospital admission risk four weeks later. There was some evidence that this efficacy may wane later on, but the findings were based on relatively small numbers. The lead researcher, Aziz Sheikh, a professor of primary care research and development and director of the University of Edinburgh’s Usher Institute, said: “These results are very encouraging and have given us great reasons to be optimistic for the future. We now have national evidence, across an entire country, that vaccination provides protection against Covid-19 hospitalisations. “Rollout of the first vaccine dose now needs to be accelerated globally to help overcome this terrible disease.”
Coronavirus - Overall