Black Lives Matter
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@majorrage said in Black Lives Matter:
@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
So justice is served, and Minneapolis can be riot free, right?
Something which I found interesting (which you may as well) is that apparently Minneapolis has had rioting issues in about 100 sq metres of the city. All the news I've been watching continuously shows Minneapolis in a complete state of unrest.
However, when you scratch the surface, it seems that it's only a tiny part of the city. Same as Portland.
It's still rioting of course, but I guess like when it happens in London, it's relatively easy to avoid.
It seems cruel when reduced to scale like that. But we all do that for many complex problems and distortions of well founded principles. I know I do often. Except for covid😉, that's not allowed.
These riots are a gross dereliction of duty though and are symptoms of far more ominous machinations. A half interested government could cease these riots in a fortnight. Easily fixable, but there's no will. Don't forget that Portland had 100 nights in a row in that tiny little area, (adjectives I wouldn’t use in front of a resident or business owner). In the same vein, there've been Autonomous zones and destruction of innocent's property and even murders throughout all these activist movements.
Brett and Heather Weinstein give first hand accounts of living in portland every week. There's a bit more to it than bad luck for a tiny outlined square on a map.
I'm not sure that reducing the severity of these crimes into small areas is much of an answer, unless one is arguing that the US is awash with riots - which no one is.
Slippery slope reducing or downplaying obvious debilitating crimes that basically everyone is disgusted at and that are eminently fixable, no matter the scale.
Reminds me of the "working class" grooming girls. The scale doesn't reflect the severity, and some behaviours cannot ever be tolerated despite their relative scarcity.
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@paekakboyz said in Black Lives Matter:
and I fully agree that destruction of private property as part of a riot or protest is scummy as fuck.
Especially, and moronically, when it is aimed at BAME owned property and BAME owned & operated businesses.
'Let's steal as much stuff as we can and burn this shit down'
People lose livelihoods and business' / jobs, leads to unemployment, and the cycle spirals lower and lower.
But it's the white 'Man' keeping us down.
Well played you fucktards.
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@bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo I guess my thinking on that is that from day 1, it's been about a white police officer killing a black man. What's changed?
What's changed? Nothing in the media. My point is that is I truly hope jurors and judges look past colour to the actions of the accused.
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@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo I guess my thinking on that is that from day 1, it's been about a white police officer killing a black man. What's changed?
What's changed? Nothing in the media. My point is that is I truly hope jurors and judges look past colour to the actions of the accused.
Do you honestly believe they didn't?
Do you think the verdict is wrong?
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@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo I guess my thinking on that is that from day 1, it's been about a white police officer killing a black man. What's changed?
What's changed? Nothing in the media. My point is that is I truly hope jurors and judges look past colour to the actions of the accused.
Oh for a world where we pay attention to people based on their deeds and living conditions, not how they came out of a womb. 🙂
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@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo I guess my thinking on that is that from day 1, it's been about a white police officer killing a black man. What's changed?
What's changed? Nothing in the media. My point is that is I truly hope jurors and judges look past colour to the actions of the accused.
Do you honestly believe they didn't?
Do you think the verdict is wrong?
I think the verdict is right.
And I'd like to think that I'd reach the same position if Floyd had been white
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@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo I guess my thinking on that is that from day 1, it's been about a white police officer killing a black man. What's changed?
What's changed? Nothing in the media. My point is that is I truly hope jurors and judges look past colour to the actions of the accused.
Oh for a world where we pay attention to people based on their deeds and living conditions, not how they came out of a womb. 🙂
Indeed
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@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo I guess my thinking on that is that from day 1, it's been about a white police officer killing a black man. What's changed?
What's changed? Nothing in the media. My point is that is I truly hope jurors and judges look past colour to the actions of the accused.
Do you honestly believe they didn't?
Do you think the verdict is wrong?
I've not seen / read a single thing about the trial, but it's much better for the world (in the short term) that he was found guilty.
I hate writing & thinking that.
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@snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
So justice is served,
Rightly or wrongly, that is the way the court saw it.
This.
I expect that the process isn't finished though
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@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@majorrage said in Black Lives Matter:
@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
So justice is served, and Minneapolis can be riot free, right?
Something which I found interesting (which you may as well) is that apparently Minneapolis has had rioting issues in about 100 sq metres of the city. All the news I've been watching continuously shows Minneapolis in a complete state of unrest.
However, when you scratch the surface, it seems that it's only a tiny part of the city. Same as Portland.
It's still rioting of course, but I guess like when it happens in London, it's relatively easy to avoid.
It seems cruel when reduced to scale like that. But we all do that for many complex problems and distortions of well founded principles. I know I do often. Except for covid😉, that's not allowed.
These riots are a gross dereliction of duty though and are symptoms of far more ominous machinations. A half interested government could cease these riots in a fortnight. Easily fixable, but there's no will. Don't forget that Portland had 100 nights in a row in that tiny little area, (adjectives I wouldn’t use in front of a resident or business owner). In the same vein, there've been Autonomous zones and destruction of innocent's property and even murders throughout all these activist movements.
Brett and Heather Weinstein give first hand accounts of living in portland every week. There's a bit more to it than bad luck for a tiny outlined square on a map.
I'm not sure that reducing the severity of these crimes into small areas is much of an answer, unless one is arguing that the US is awash with riots - which no one is.
Slippery slope reducing or downplaying obvious debilitating crimes that basically everyone is disgusted at and that are eminently fixable, no matter the scale.
Reminds me of the "working class" grooming girls. The scale doesn't reflect the severity, and some behaviours cannot ever be tolerated despite their relative scarcity.
Portland seems to be pretty fucked uo
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@mikethesnow said in Black Lives Matter:
@paekakboyz said in Black Lives Matter:
and I fully agree that destruction of private property as part of a riot or protest is scummy as fuck.
Especially, and moronically, when it is aimed at BAME owned property and BAME owned & operated businesses.
'Let's steal as much stuff as we can and burn this shit down'
People lose livelihoods and business' / jobs, leads to unemployment, and the cycle spirals lower and lower.
But it's the white 'Man' keeping us down.
Well played you fucktards.
True, although I would change "Especially and moronically" to ironically.
There is no difference in specialness or moron-ish of looting depending on the born characteristics of the owners.
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@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
I certainly agree the media has gone to town on the racial angle. As have many of the protestors.
The jury was exposed to that subtext from the start. If you watch any of the jury selection a lot of the questions were explicitly about race; what are your feelings about BLM, what are your feelings about Blue Lives Matter etc etc.
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It's kind of fucked up that Biden went public stating "praying the verdict is the right verdict. It's overwhelming, in my view. I wouldn't say that unless the jury was sequestered."
No, that's not right. It's COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FUCKED UP.
Can you imagine if Trump had done this?
There's trying to appease the woke vote, and then there's basically approving the woke vote to go complete and utterly mental if the US justice system doesn't agree with them.
This shit is just not right. Biden cannot comment like this. He simply cannot.
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@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo I guess my thinking on that is that from day 1, it's been about a white police officer killing a black man. What's changed?
What's changed? Nothing in the media. My point is that is I truly hope jurors and judges look past colour to the actions of the accused.
Oh for a world where we pay attention to people based on their deeds and living conditions, not how they came out of a womb. 🙂
Caesarian lives matter
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@majorrage but they were sequested when he made that comment. He explicity mentioned that as part of why he was commenting and the timing of it.
I read a bit about both Waters's comments and there were comparisons with Trump's tweets during trials while he was president. There were challenges in the courts about the perceived impact of Trumps comments and they all failed. I haven't read all the comments but it doesn't sound like Waters's comment were any worse than Trump's. So while it was an objectively dumb thing to do, it doesn't seem likely to be cause for a mistrial.
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@rotated said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
I certainly agree the media has gone to town on the racial angle. As have many of the protestors.
The jury was exposed to that subtext from the start. If you watch any of the jury selection a lot of the questions were explicitly about race; what are your feelings about BLM, what are your feelings about Blue Lives Matter etc etc.
Thats pretty interesting that they can ask that level.of question. Led to me to have a read of this:
And in particular this minefield:
Implied Bias. Implied bias is present when potential jurors have character traits or personal experiences that make it unlikely for them to be able to be impartial, regardless of what they say during voir dire. So, a juror who is a close friend or relative of a key party, a witness, the judge, or an attorney for either side will be dismissed for cause. Bias is also implied when a would-be juror’s background or experience is likely to create a predisposition in favor of a party to the case. For example, in a case involving school teachers accused of fraudulently misrepresenting standardized test scores, any teachers in the panel will probably be excused for cause (even if those teachers swear in voir dire that they can be impartial
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If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
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@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
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@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the fact that Floyd had swallowed his stash and was saying he couldn't breath while he was sitting in his car seat, long before the restraint, points away from murder IMO. More like manslaughter.
And the recently released body cam apparantly showed his knee between his shoulder blades not on his neck, but I've not seen that myself.
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
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@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the fact that Floyd had swallowed his stash and was saying he couldn't breath while he was sitting in his car seat, long before the restraint, points away from murder IMO. More like manslaughter.
And the recently released body cam apparantly showed his knee between his shoulder blades not on his neck, but I've not seen that myself.
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
i don't know. and i am not willing cast aspersions that basically 12 people sent a dude to jail for fucking ages for selfish reasons.
From what i have read of the evidence presented, and the way Minnesota law works around the charges laid, the verdict looked pretty much in line (i am not a lawyer, so that's as far as i am willing to go).