Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East
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Not really sure where to ask this.
How serious is the current Israel Palaestine conflict?
Is this right wing media hyping it up to try and draw contrast with the relative peace of the Trump Presidency on that front ?Or is this some genuinely serious shit?
I never know what to believe anymore
(that and I am uninformed idiot on these matters) -
@frank from what I've caught Netanyahu isn't doing well and the attack at the Al-Aqsa and the removal of Palestinians from their homes in east Jerusalem is popular with the more hardcore elements of Israel. Read that it was 2014 since the last rockets were fired into Israel, but unsure if that was due to a crack down on weapons making it in, the effectiveness of iron dome, or some progress towards better relations (yeah right). The Al-Aqsa attack, and the continuing rejections (from Israeli authorities) for people applying for access to the mosque, and the other stuff in East Jerusalem has turned shit back up to 11.
Seems Hamas have a shit load of rockets as they were clearly trying to saturate iron dome. We know Israel does not fuck about with reprisals so they've been going hard.
Only saw one article that mentioned it but during Trump's administration there was a lot of growth of Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem. Where it's clear Israel is trying to push the Palestinians out and they try and inch closer to international recognition of Jerusalem as their capital.
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Iām not an expert on this, but I think Israel is trying to get as much as they can while they can, by supporting the (currently) small percentage of the population (Haredis) that they see as the key to remaining in power long term.
The local Israeli population is becoming more diverse and the country is coming under greater pressure from both sides with short/medium term effects and longer term effects.
The percentage of Arab Israelis has more than doubled since 1949, and is now about 20% of the total population. About 2/3 of them say religion is important and many naturally sympathize with the Palestinians. Until about 2035 this growth should continue (up to 1/4 of the total population) which will put pressure on the country to be more diverse.
On the other hand, there seems to be a trend that the percentage of Haredi (very devout) Jews will also grow, and after 2035 Jews are predicted to grow as a percentage of the total population - and specifically Haredi Jews will grow to be about 32% of the population.
So, honestly, I'd say that the next Civil War/regional war/world war will start in Israel.
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@gt12 and how many moderate Jews and Arab Israeli's get fucked over while the Haredi continue to push. I've got a bunch of Israeli and Arab Israeli mates (best mate at Uni married a Israeli Jew, she also converted but that's another story) and they are continually frustrated at the groups who agitate so hard (Haredi + some others) but don't have to serve in the military due to religious reasons. So others get to carry the can for what another group is initiating. Many, many layers of suckiness to this
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@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@gt12 and how many moderate Jews and Arab Israeli's get fucked over while the Haredi continue to push. I've got a bunch of Israeli and Arab Israeli mates (best mate at Uni married a Israeli Jew, she also converted but that's another story) and they are continually frustrated at the groups who agitate so hard (Haredi + some others) but don't have to serve in the military due to religious reasons. So others get to carry the can for what another group is initiating. Many, many layers of suckiness to this
I am sure there are groups on both sides who want to keep on fighting each other forever, while a large proportion are stuck in the middle just wanting to get on with living
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@canefan it does have some upsides though - the people I hung out with at the wedding and stuff knew how to PARTY. I reckon a good dose of hedonism is just what is needed when living in an environment like that!
I just don't see there being any internal political will to reverse some of the incursions into the East or other areas they are technically occupying illegally. I'm not sure if Israeli control of all of Jerusalem would trigger a war or something, but if they keep pushing something has to give at some point. Terrifying stuff.
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@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan it does have some upsides though - the people I hung out with at the wedding and stuff knew how to PARTY. I reckon a good dose of hedonism is just what is needed when living in an environment like that!
I just don't see there being any internal political will to reverse some of the incursions into the East or other areas they are technically occupying illegally. I'm not sure if Israeli control of all of Jerusalem would trigger a war or something, but if they keep pushing something has to give at some point. Terrifying stuff.
Who would fight against Israel outside of the Palestinians?
The Palestinians would be obliterated wouldn't they? -
@Frank if Israel has effectively destroyed Palestine, or any hope of it being a functional country/entity, then some of those anti-Israel countries might consider it moot as there isn't anything to lose. Not sure if that means open season on Israel, or if they'd give up as there was no internal element to support. So does Palestine existing in some form actually keep Israel safer in a perverse way? the country I mean, I suspect however things pan out life will always be riskier in that part of the world
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@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Frank if Israel has effectively destroyed Palestine, or any hope of it being a functional country/entity, then some of those anti-Israel countries might consider it moot as there isn't anything to lose. Not sure if that means open season on Israel, or if they'd give up as there was no internal element to support. So does Palestine existing in some form actually keep Israel safer in a perverse way? the country I mean, I suspect however things pan out life will always be riskier in that part of the world
As long as the world depends on oil? Absolutely
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@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan it does have some upsides though - the people I hung out with at the wedding and stuff knew how to PARTY. I reckon a good dose of hedonism is just what is needed when living in an environment like that!
I just don't see there being any internal political will to reverse some of the incursions into the East or other areas they are technically occupying illegally. I'm not sure if Israeli control of all of Jerusalem would trigger a war or something, but if they keep pushing something has to give at some point. Terrifying stuff.
I spent a few weekends spead over 3 or 4 work trips partying in Tel Aviv back in 2005-7. Freaking awesome city to party in
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There is no greater evil in the world than man's interpretation of religion
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@frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
My question was more along the lines of whether it is true Trump being so pro-Israel deterred Palestine from trying anything?
I can't why. Most of not all US Presidents are pro-Israel
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As long as Palestinians are used as a vehicle for Arab nations to kick Israel, as long as Israel's existence is threatened, and as long as Palestinians vote for Hamas etc., then this is the end result.
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@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Frank if Israel has effectively destroyed Palestine, or any hope of it being a functional country/entity, then some of those anti-Israel countries might consider it moot as there isn't anything to lose. Not sure if that means open season on Israel, or if they'd give up as there was no internal element to support. So does Palestine existing in some form actually keep Israel safer in a perverse way? the country I mean, I suspect however things pan out life will always be riskier in that part of the world
The list of anti-Israel countries is shrinking all the time and the silence from some recently-friendly Arab states is deafening, especially silence about attacks on worshippers in the 3rd holiest site in Islam during the holiest month in the Islamic calendar
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@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
As long as Palestinians are used as a vehicle for Arab nations to kick Israel, as long as Israel's existence is threatened, and as long as Palestinians vote for Hamas etc., then this is the end result.
This current situation has little to do with Arab nations trying to kick Israel - there are only a small handful of Arab nations who aren't now on good terms with Israel.