The Artist Formerly Known As ... RIP
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="576089" data-time="1462064881">
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<p>An internet colloquialism to show disdain for people who say the stupidest shit is a serious and real threat to you? You certainly have a high opinion of yourself.<br>
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Even Anne Frank wouldn't have mistaken your playing for theirs. There's a smaller distance between Earth and Jupiter than a beginner who manages to hit the same notes as he reads the tab in front of him. There are some unbelievably technically brilliant guitarists in conservatoriums, but they aren't creating the music Knopfler and Clapton did. They aren't creating or redefining genres for other guitarists, nor does most of the guitar playing world recognise them for their contributions. Interstingly both Knopfler and Clapton are economical players, doing only what's necessary for the songs they play on to transcend. Perhaps they just aren't flashy enough for you to appreciate. Pity Chet Atkins died before you took up the guitar, he'd love to have played with someone who found their shit easy to play.</p>
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<p>I said irked, not threatened.</p>
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<p>I said I thought they were overrated and mentioned others I preferred all of whom are undeniable hall of famers themselves. You wanna try and sing their praises and go on about the influences Clapton and Knopfler had then fill your fucken boots, I don't rate them in that echelon and no words will change that. For players of that "type" ie economical I reckon Dave Gilmour is a much better example of someone who knew what to play or not. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="576094" data-time="1462069779">
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<p>Antipodean have you ever read Mick Walls Metallica biography exit light? There's a part in it where the producer of master of puppets finally snaps and asks Urlich if he has to start every song with a downbeat and he asks " what's s downbeat ?" This was when he was being touted as one of the worlds premier drummers, around the same time he was telling people Phil Rudd and Charlie Watts were the worst drummers ever. About 10 years later he was telling people the exact opposite . I think you're having the same conversion with MN5 .</p>
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<p>In one sense you can't have too many "genius's" in a band or else it will implode as Cream did.</p>
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<p>Deep Purples bass player and producer Roger Glover said something along the lines of he was definitely the least prodigious talent in the band by far compared to Blackmore/Lord/Paice and Gillan but was happy to play second fiddle and "make them look good" and those four were definitely the kind of talents everyone on their respective instruments wanted to emulate. Having seen them live 10 years ago I can confirm that he clearly still loves what he does and from interviews I've seen appears to have little to no ego for a rock star and member of a band as iconic as Purple is.....</p>
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<p>Some call Ringo Starr a revolutionary figure on the drums but John Lennon famously mentioned that he wasn't even the best drummer in the beatles let alone the world. It's all subjective.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="576094" data-time="1462069779"><p>Antipodean have you ever read Mick Walls Metallica biography exit light? There's a part in it where the producer of master of puppets finally snaps and asks Urlich if he has to start every song with a downbeat and he asks " what's s downbeat ?" This was when he was being touted as one of the worlds premier drummers, around the same time he was telling people Phil Rudd and Charlie Watts were the worst drummers ever. About 10 years later he was telling people the exact opposite . I think you're having the same conversion with MN5 .</p></blockquote><br>Enter Light, yes I own it.<br><br>The only people who considered Lars a brilliant drummer were high-school kids. Even then plenty of people were saying he was a shit drummer. I distinctly recall these arguments because I was at school listening to Puppets and Justice. But these were the same kids who thought Kirk was the best ever guitarist, or Tommy Lee the best drummer in the world because he played upside down in a spinning cage. The big difference is critical acclaim doesn't come from kids, it comes from peers. Something Mark and Eric have in abundance.<br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="576095" data-time="1462069795"><p>I said irked, not threatened.</p></blockquote><br>You said threat, I quoted you.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="576099" data-time="1462071502">
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<p>Enter Light, yes I own it.<br><br>
The only people who considered Lars a brilliant drummer were high-school kids. Even then plenty of people were saying he was a shit drummer. I distinctly recall these arguments because I was at school listening to Puppets and Justice. But these were the same kids who thought Kirk was the best ever guitarist, or Tommy Lee the best drummer in the world because he played upside down in a spinning cage. The big difference is critical acclaim doesn't come from kids, i<strong>t comes from peers. Something Mark and Eric have in abundance.</strong><br><br><br>
You said threat, I quoted you.</p>
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<p>True but public opinion kinda matters too and peers disagree over certain artists merits. It's hilarious reading Ginger Baker ripping apart other famous musos and mentioning how shit such and such is. That doco "Beware Mr Baker" was brilliant, what a cantankerous old arsehole he is, but what a player he is too ( I'm not a world famous rock drummer but am I allowed to have an opinion on his playing ? )</p> -
<p>best ever! </p>
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<p>Wyld Stallyns!</p>
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<p><img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/BTFP6q6c1Tnyg/giphy.gif" alt="giphy.gif"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="576116" data-time="1462076303">
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<p>best ever! </p>
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<p>Wyld Stallyns!</p>
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<p><img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/BTFP6q6c1Tnyg/giphy.gif" alt="giphy.gif"></p>
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<p>That movie may or may not have been a major influence in me picking up the guitar on summer holiday in 1990 and whilst being frustrated I wasn't quite a master I took solace in the fact I was a) better than them and b ) able to bust out sweet versions of both "Sunshine of your love" AND "Smoke on the Water" both on the bottom E string. Clapton and Blackmore combined didn't have shit on me......</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="576103" data-time="1462072720"><p>
True but public opinion kinda matters too and peers disagree over certain artists merits. It's hilarious reading Ginger Baker ripping apart other famous musos and mentioning how shit such and such is. That doco "Beware Mr Baker" was brilliant, what a cantankerous old arsehole he is, but what a player he is too ( I'm not a world famous rock drummer but am I allowed to have an opinion on his playing ? )</p></blockquote>
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Isnt Ginger Baker supposed to an appalling person to be around ? What do suppose they were on when they wrote the lyrics to anyone for tennis? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="576171" data-time="1462092279">
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<p>Isnt Ginger Baker supposed to an appalling person to be around ? What do suppose they were on when they wrote the lyrics to anyone for tennis?</p>
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<p>Yep, you can watch the doco on youtube. Many call the Rolling Stones the greatest rock band on earth ( I'm certainly far from one of them ). Ginger Baker hates them and says they're all shit players so who do you believe, the public or one of their peers ? Apparently Charlie Watts always used to send Baker tickets to concerts when he was in whatever town Baker lived in knowing full well there was no way he'd redeem them.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="576095" data-time="1462069795">
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<p>I said irked, not threatened.</p>
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<p>I said I thought they were overrated and mentioned others I preferred all of whom are undeniable hall of famers themselves. You wanna try and sing their praises and go on about the influences Clapton and Knopfler had then fill your fucken boots, I don't rate them in that echelon and no words will change that. For players of that "type" ie economical I reckon Dave Gilmour is a much better example of someone who knew what to play or not. </p>
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<p>I am genuinely surprised that you seem to think Gilmour is any good.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="576190" data-time="1462100790">
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<p>Seriously a bitch fight over something as subjective as musical ability<br><br>
Leaving aside everyone's predisposition towards those that play the music they like<br><br>
ITS A FUCKING POINTLESS EXERCISE</p>
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<p>I actually don't enter into music threads much, I only entered into this one as I was curious how it was still going when it just talking about some dead musician. I am incredibly uninterested in music and always have been, I listen to music that makes my ears happy, I don't look for good lyrics or messages, I would not know a good guitarists from a great one, and possibly even an average one.</p>
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<p>This has caused disagreement in the house as it appears my kids also have a rather limited appreciation for the nuances of music, which disappoints there mum who is a kick ass musician and spent YEARS getting qualified as a concert level pianist</p>
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<p>I just dont give a flying monkeys about any of this. Which did help once when I met some guy at a charity event in London for some cricket team I was pseudo involved in that were called Nomads and played out of Lords. I met some guy and we chatted for a bit about various stuff, I'd had a few beers and was chewing the fat and talking about what I did, the wife, my local tennis club in London... eventually I got bored talking about me and asked what he did, he said he was pretty much retired but used to work as a musician. Cool.. I talked about the Eagles concert I had just been to.... and he said he had gone as well. I asked if he played in local gigs (quite proud of the fact I used the word 'gig' btw), he just said nah.. but he used to when he was younger.</p>
<p>Anyway... speeches and charity auction started, and my new mate Eric apparently had donated some of his stuff for auction.... </p>
<p>One of the other guys came up and asked if I had his autograph.. and I said? Who? And he said Eric Clapton.. that guy you have been talking to for an hour.....</p>
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<p>It must have been blatantly obvious to him I had no idea who he was... but he didn't seem to care.</p>
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<p>I still couldnt tell you a single song by Eric Clapton.. might know if they come on Classic Hits though!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="576254" data-time="1462149364">
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<p>I actually don't enter into music threads much, I only entered into this one as I was curious how it was still going when it just talking about some dead musician. I am incredibly uninterested in music and always have been, I listen to music that makes my ears happy, I don't look for good lyrics or messages, I would not know a good guitarists from a great one, and possibly even an average one.</p>
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<p>This has caused disagreement in the house as it appears my kids also have a rather limited appreciation for the nuances of music, which disappoints there mum who is a kick ass musician and spent YEARS getting qualified as a concert level pianist</p>
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<p>I just dont give a flying monkeys about any of this. Which did help once when I met some guy at a charity event in London for some cricket team I was pseudo involved in that were called Nomads and played out of Lords. I met some guy and we chatted for a bit about various stuff, I'd had a few beers and was chewing the fat and talking about what I did, the wife, my local tennis club in London... eventually I got bored talking about me and asked what he did, he said he was pretty much retired but used to work as a musician. Cool.. I talked about the Eagles concert I had just been to.... and he said he had gone as well. I asked if he played in local gigs (quite proud of the fact I used the word 'gig' btw), he just said nah.. but he used to when he was younger.</p>
<p>Anyway... speeches and charity auction started, and my new mate Eric apparently had donated some of his stuff for auction.... </p>
<p>One of the other guys came up and asked if I had his autograph.. and I said? Who? And he said Eric Clapton.. that guy you have been talking to for an hour.....</p>
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<p>It must have been blatantly obvious to him I had no idea who he was... but he didn't seem to care.</p>
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<p>I still couldnt tell you a single song by Eric Clapton.. might know if they come on Classic Hits though!</p>
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<p>That is quite incredible! To think you have a wife! Just wow!</p>
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<p>Seriously though, he must have been chuffed to just have a normal chat at a piss up.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="576255" data-time="1462149641">
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<p>That is quite incredible! To think you have a wife! Just wow!</p>
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<p>Seriously though, he must have been chuffed to just have a normal chat at a piss up.</p>
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<p>I actually felt like a bit of as chump afterwards, and also felt like I had somehow been rude, it was a weird feeling. And once I knew he was famous.. I didnt try to talk to him again, that is some Psycology 101 stuff right there. But the dynamic definitely changed.. and that actually makes no sense, as I knew he was just a good guy having a beer. But he had become 'Eric Clapton' not 'Eric'</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="576190" data-time="1462100790">
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<p>Seriously a bitch fight over something as subjective as musical ability<br><br>
Leaving aside everyone's predisposition towards those that play the music they like<br><br>
ITS A FUCKING POINTLESS EXERCISE</p>
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<p>You could put this on every thread, changing musical for rugby.</p>
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<p>It'd still be a FUCKING POINTLESS EXERCISE.</p>
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<p>But thats why we are here.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="576258" data-time="1462150344"><p>
You could put this on every thread, changing musical for rugby.<br><br>
It'd still be a FUCKING POINTLESS EXERCISE.<br><br>
But thats why we are here.</p></blockquote>
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I was trying to think of a way to get that across but you said it better than I was going to. This threads actually been quite interesting for the most part, I'm not sure id take Ginger Bakers opinion of the stones given his loathing of them . -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="576254" data-time="1462149364">
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<p>I actually don't enter into music threads much, I only entered into this one as I was curious how it was still going when it just talking about some dead musician. I am incredibly uninterested in music and always have been, I listen to music that makes my ears happy, I don't look for good lyrics or messages, I would not know a good guitarists from a great one, and possibly even an average one.</p>
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<p>I've not read or posted in the 'what are you listening to now' thread, while I like a lot of music, I'm like you in that I listen to what I like - my playlist for workouts and running is interesting, don't really care what other people think of it...</p>
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<p> I doubt I'd of known Eric Clapton if he stood in front of me either...Lzzy Hale or Taylor Momsen maybe...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="576266" data-time="1462151151">
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<p>I've not read or posted in the 'what are you listening to now' thread, while I like a lot of music, I'm like you in that I listen to what I like - my playlist for workouts and running is interesting, don't really care what other people think of it...</p>
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<p> I doubt I'd of known Eric Clapton if he stood in front of me either...Lzzy Hale or Taylor Momsen maybe...</p>
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<p>I did genuinely like Clapton when he was in Cream, some of their stuff was really decent but I think his work from about 1970 onwards was really turgid and dull, "Layla" and "Let it Grow" are fine songs but at the risk of antipodean labelling me some kind of musical philistine he just doesn't interest me. Most of his better known songs "Cocaine" 'After Midnight" "Knocking on Heavens Door" "I shot the Sheriff" are covers as well. Kudos to him for organizing the Crossroads festival, there are some awesome players who go to that but the man himself ? Rory Gallagher, Johnny Winter, SRV and Alvin Lee were far superior white boy bluesmen.</p>
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<p>Baron, pains me to say it but that story is hilarious. Hats off to you.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="576258" data-time="1462150344">
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<p>You could put this on every thread, changing musical for rugby.</p>
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<p>It'd still be a FUCKING POINTLESS EXERCISE.</p>
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<p>But thats why we are here.</p>
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<p><em>​Most</em> of us have some understanding of the dynamics of rugby and can fashion an argument to support a position.</p>
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<p>I'm not sure that's true of music. I'd be surprised if everyone who has commented on the technical ability of a guitarist is qualified to comment whereas we can all say x has really good pace, y's passing to the right really isn't good enough or z's lineout throwing is inconsistent.</p>
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<p>I can't play the guitar so any comment I make abot a guitarists ability will basically be limited to "I like the shit he/she plays" which is a pointless fucking exercise</p>