The State of the Game
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@taniwharugby said in The State of the Game:
@victor-meldrew said in The State of the Game:
Some Ref's are great at managing the TMO and have the confidence to make decisions there and then. Others aren't and you can understand why they want to get it right and avoid being crucified for getting it wrong.
some, like Gardner get hung out to dry if they get it right too...the Red Card when BB was taken in the air by a French player.
Who'd be a ref these days?
I think the TMO is easy to fix by them only being able to rule on stuff when the ref asks for thier input, or grub acts. If they see dangerous play the ref missed, then they send it to the citing commissioner, because if it is dangerous and the ref missed, I'd say on balance of probability, it is going to be a marginal one anyway, so better to pass it onto the Citing Commissioner to make a decision without the emotion and time constraint of getting on with the game and fans bored of seeing 20 replays from 2 or 3 angles angles.
Why we don't just put a report system in place is beyond me. Situations like the Taylor one can be "Let's get someone to look at this after the game, penalty green, play on"
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@crucial said in The State of the Game:
@taniwharugby said in The State of the Game:
@victor-meldrew said in The State of the Game:
Some Ref's are great at managing the TMO and have the confidence to make decisions there and then. Others aren't and you can understand why they want to get it right and avoid being crucified for getting it wrong.
some, like Gardner get hung out to dry if they get it right too...the Red Card when BB was taken in the air by a French player.
Who'd be a ref these days?
I think the TMO is easy to fix by them only being able to rule on stuff when the ref asks for thier input, or grub acts. If they see dangerous play the ref missed, then they send it to the citing commissioner, because if it is dangerous and the ref missed, I'd say on balance of probability, it is going to be a marginal one anyway, so better to pass it onto the Citing Commissioner to make a decision without the emotion and time constraint of getting on with the game and fans bored of seeing 20 replays from 2 or 3 angles angles.
Why we don't just put a report system in place is beyond me. Situations like the Taylor one can be "Let's get someone to look at this after the game, penalty green, play on"
Virtue signalling. Have to be seen to 'do something', even if that's not realllly that effective.
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If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
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the stupid part of Saturday was, we had incidental head contact by a tackler that had zero effect on the tackled player result in a yellow
We had incidental head contact by a ball runner that resulted in a player leaving for the entire game for no thought of a sanction.
The 2nd is fair enough. The first?
The fucking stupid thing about all of this is, in all the long years i played, i suffered many more head injuries as the tackler than than the tackled player.
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@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
If you are talking NZ domestic game crowds, then to be serious, overkill of rugby, boredom of super-whatever & price of tickets.
The club game here is thriving again after a year out.
Although of all the criticisms I have of Pommy rugby (and there are quire a few) the fans not turning up to games is not one of them.
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@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
If you are talking NZ domestic game crowds, then to be serious, overkill of rugby, boredom of super-whatever & price of tickets.
The club game here is thriving again after a year out.
Although of all the criticisms I have of Pommy rugby (and there are quire a few) the fans not turning up to games is not one of them.
I don't live there. i don't watch much of their club stuff, i can't comment. But it's a scary thought because if it continues to thrive NZ rugby will end up where it belongs, a plucky under-resourced battler.
It's pretty fucked down here because of all the shit you are talking about, and the player drain. And the coaching drain.
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
I'd say there are two issue that compound that.
- Timing of fixtures. Rugby should be a daylight game.
- It's not an event. People turn up because it's the place to be and have fun.
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@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
If you are talking NZ domestic game crowds, then to be serious, overkill of rugby, boredom of super-whatever & price of tickets.
The club game here is thriving again after a year out.
Although of all the criticisms I have of Pommy rugby (and there are quire a few) the fans not turning up to games is not one of them.
personally i dont think its the total number of games thats killing the interest....its all the different competitions so too much importance is put on each game, i would rather one 21 game comp than three 7 game comps where if you lose one or two games your already on the back foot
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@donsteppa said in The State of the Game:
I might buy more into the 'we're just getting older and grumpier' line of thought if I was also falling out of love with cricket. But that's definitely not the case...
I think there has been a long term trend of people stopping playing rugby earlier than they used to though, and maybe that all starts to accumulate for rugby interest over time. I can remember Colin Meads quietly lamenting that in an article around the mid-2000's. (The story had him mentioning a bloke nearby propping up the club bar 'while he should still be out there playing first')
I keep meaning to look up some of the player number stats for the various sports, especially at junior level. The growing weight of dementia-related stories like Carl Hayman's might start to bite sometime. Though participation in women's rugby seems to be growing.
Spectator numbers, at least in NZ, are also telling below Super Rugby level. Up until about three years ago I was determined that we had to (somehow) do a massive upgrade to Tauranga Domain. There are still upgrades that should be done there to facilities, lights, etc.
But, looking at last years NPC crowds in places like Waikato Stadium and Forsyth Barr... would you really want to invest tens of millions of dollars (or more, given construction prices) in substantially bigger capacity than Tauranga Domain in most places at the moment - unless you were a Super Rugby franchise base? I miss the days of massive crowds wherever the Ranfurly Shield was.
Yep. Massive issue.
I follow a page on FB that plays old NPC games from the 90s and the crowds were always massive, a far cry from what you get these days.
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Yeah. I think we've branched into a seperate issue here.
You have the "State of the Game" topic. What impacts rules, refereeing etc are having on the enjoyability of rugby.
Then you have a seperate issue, which way predates this, the massive decline of rugby's popularity in NZ both as a spectator sport, TV sport, and playing numbers. Could probably do seperate branches of this foe all the SH powers.
For NZ it is the connected symptoms of Super Rugby:
- reducing the numbers of teams to 5
- Once all grounds became floodlight by about 1999, the removal of day rugby (as only 2 home NZ games per weekend)
- the Ghettoising into pay TV
- the ghettoising into after kids bedtime.
After S12 formed we didn't bring the next generation along.
And, in NZ, we have totally destroyed FTA television, you guys overseas probably don't realise how bad it is, and there is no 'shared culture' in NZ.When I first heard the "Rugby, Racing and Beer" stereotype when I was in my late teens , maybe in late 80s or early 90s, I scoffed that racing could ever have been a big thing.
You can draw some comparisons with racing in NZ compared to racing in Australia. NZ ghettosied into Trackside channel (but was still FTA if you had the right aerial). where as in Australia while they created Sky Racing at the same time - you still have the big carnival events on the main FTA channels.
In Australia the strength of CH9 and CH7 over the years, with Foxtel as just the 'cherry on top' option - is just so different from NZ. Has served their 2 main football leagues and cricket very well.
These mistakes weren't obvious to me at the time; too few teams, too deep and high quality a competition, nigh time ghetto, pay tv ghetto. So, I have no blame to fling.
Unfortunately. When we started noticing the decline. We double down. Allowed SANZAR partners to increase but no desire ourselves. Filled the NPC space with more All Blacks games. We've created a crap top-down system where it is 'too high quality' that we rest players in SR and rest players for tests. It's a bit like the top-down model of the ODI glut of the 90's and early 00's that de-railed international cricket. Making it all the same small player pool appearing all the time but at only 80% effort or care all the time.
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@rapido said in The State of the Game:
Yeah. I think we've branched into a seperate issue here.
You have the "State of the Game" topic. What impacts rules, refereeing etc are having on the enjoyability of rugby.
Then you have a seperate issue, which way predates this, the massive decline of rugby's popularity in NZ both as a spectator sport, TV sport, and playing numbers. Could probably do seperate branches of this foe all the SH powers.
For NZ it is the connected symptoms of Super Rugby:
- reducing the numbers of teams to 5
- Once all grounds became floodlight by about 1999, the removal of day rugby (as only 2 home NZ games per weekend)
- the Ghettoising into pay TV
- the ghettoising into after kids bedtime.
After S12 formed we didn't bring the next generation along.
And, in NZ, we have totally destroyed FTA television, you guys overseas probably don't realise how bad it is, and there is no 'shared culture' in NZ.When I first heard the "Rugby, Racing and Beer" stereotype when I was in my late teens , maybe in late 80s or early 90s, I scoffed that racing could ever have been a big thing.
You can draw some comparisons with racing in NZ compared to racing in Australia. NZ ghettosied into Trackside channel (but was still FTA if you had the right aerial). where as in Australia while they created Sky Racing at the same time - you still have the big carnival events on the main FTA channels.
In Australia the strength of CH9 and CH7 over the years, with Foxtel as just the 'cherry on top' option - is just so different from NZ. Has served their 2 main football leagues and cricket very well.
Not two things at all for me. I will only occasionally go to games now, if part of another social reason or watching family play. I used to be quite happy to go to the odd game by myself or just my my son but now I get so frustrated with the stop start nature due to scrum management, refs taking their time, water carriers etc that I can't be bothered. Watch any game from 15 years ago compared to now and time how long it takes for a half to play out.
Go to a 7:30 kickoff game and you're getting back to your car about 10pm -
@mn5 said in The State of the Game:
I follow a page on FB that plays old NPC games from the 90s and the crowds were always massive, a far cry from what you get these days.
The NPC was the only show in town for a long time and seldom broadcast live on TV, even when it was FTA on TVNZ, so if you wanted to watch the games you went to them. Combined with afternoon kickoffs, and people's ability to watch games live from the comfort of their sofa now, and it is a different time.
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As a bit of a joke theory.
Honestly. If you are home on a wet weekend and you feel like watching some sport, but only have FTA TV. You can watch Castrol Motorsport 52 weekends a year, or a Neighbours omnibus. A few years ago I think you could watch Castrol Motorsport or if you didn't fancy that switch to the other former giant of FTA TV and watch CRC Motorsport.
No shortage of young pricks in NZ in fast cars hooning about.
I don't know when I've last seen 6 young guys in a park playing a game of pick-up touch rugby. Probably 20 years ago in London ... Maybe it still happens in the more polynesian parts of town?
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@rapido there must be some good fishing shows on tv
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@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
@rapido there must be some good fishing shows on tv
Yes,there are actually.
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Full houses at Test level up North
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@mikethesnow said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Full houses at Test level up North
Posh Scottish twits always love a wee jaunt to Murrayfield
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Ha this can go in here as it is an unintended consequence of one of the recent (stupid) rule changes...
