All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@gt12 Are you being serious with those charges? Just looks like the whole squad is being managed through a long arduous program and opportunities given on merit for the commitment made and rest given where required. The rotation seems largely planned around who the opposition is and not about playing the supposed top xv each week regardless of circumstances.
If you are serious then I would hate to be in any squad you are involved in. Just flog your favourites and deny others opportunities when they are selected.
I don't care if we lose the odd match when we are building depth and combinations and giving fair opportunities to those selected to improve their experience in international conditions with different refereeing styles and constant hometown scrutiny of possible incidents while playing away from home and covid restrictions on the usual touring activities and distancing from friends and family.
So I totally disagree with the criticism of selections when this management crew has probably had the biggest challenge of the professional era in keeping the players motivated and unified as a team. Just witness the Lions tours issues with the dirt trackers for a comparison. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it shows that they've picked too many players they don't seem to want to play - we've hardly seen Aumua, De Groot, Ta'avao, Ennor, Sotutu, and Lord (understandable).
For some of those players there seems to be a valid reason (from the outside). Aumua was originally selected as the 3rd hooker but has clearly been overtaken by Taukei’aho. The fact that Coles was taken on this tour meant 4 hookers was always going to be one too many once he joined the squad. Ta'avao has been injured in recent weeks so wasn't available for selection.
As I said, I would have picked de Groot for this test. Bower, like Ta'avao, seems to be a placeholder. Sotutu or Jacobson should have been on the bench instead of Frizell (who shouldn't be there to begin with) - that's on Foster and Plumtree.
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Sotutu or Jacobson havent had a fair go this tour. Both decent players
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Sotutu or Jacobson havent had a fair go this tour. Both decent players
Certainly not in comparison to others.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I really don't understand the 'growth and development' of the team this season that Foster is talking about.
What development? The attacking shape and defensive system look exactly the same with the same weaknesses.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I really don't understand the 'growth and development' of the team this season that Foster is talking about.
What development? The attacking shape and defensive system look exactly the same with the same weaknesses.
They are in a bubble of mutual confirmation, the team seriously needs an outside/external review
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I really don't understand the 'growth and development' of the team this season that Foster is talking about.
What development? The attacking shape and defensive system look exactly the same with the same weaknesses.
It did look like we were building nicely this year, with better selections and more physicality from the forwards. Up until we met the Boks, then we just reverted to type and put ourselves under all sorts of pressure. Then we saw the same against the Irish, except they were more clinical and exploited our weaknesses better.
I was willing to cut Foster some slack for the first season which was badly disrupted, but it just doesn't seem like we have figured out how to play the more physical teams with the organised rush defense. It looks like Foster and co are somewhat out of ideas and are hoping we'll get over the line through individual brilliance more than anything.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I really don't understand the 'growth and development' of the team this season that Foster is talking about.
What development? The attacking shape and defensive system look exactly the same with the same weaknesses.
It did look like we were building nicely this year, with better selections and more physicality from the forwards. Up until we met the Boks, then we just reverted to type and put ourselves under all sorts of pressure. Then we saw the same against the Irish, except they were more clinical and exploited our weaknesses better.
I was willing to cut Foster some slack for the first season which was badly disrupted, but it just doesn't seem like we have figured out how to play the more physical teams with the organised rush defense. It looks like Foster and co are somewhat out of ideas and are hoping we'll get over the line through individual brilliance more than anything.
not sure i even i even agree we were building well....but i do agree with the idea they are really just hoping individual brilliance will be enough, hence jordie on the wing last year and savea at 8, they just want as many of the best player on the field at the same time, completely ignoring the old adage about champion teams v a team of champions
we even saw it first hand against the irish, our tries all came from moments of brilliance where are Ireland's generally came from periods of dominance
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
but it just doesn't seem like we have figured out how to play the more physical teams with the organised rush defense
cut them some slack, the first time were exposed to that was 2017, good things take time.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
but it just doesn't seem like we have figured out how to play the more physical teams with the organised rush defense
cut them some slack, the first time were exposed to that was 2017, good things take time.
Only 4 years we should have worked it by 2025 maybe
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Sotutu or Jacobson havent had a fair go this tour. Both decent players.
Are you saying the All Blacks should be about a “fair go”?
What does that even mean when top level pro sport has never been about objectivity.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A bit of a tale of two stories - one for the backs, where everyone paid for their errors (to the extent that injuries permit), but in the forwards it seems like they still want to trust some old heads but punish/rest a few.
- Taylor pays with his spot, despite being probably the best of the three starting front row
- Brodie gets another chance, thus Vaa'ii may be just as likely to not take the field
- Paps and Blackadder pay for doing their jobs, and the player who put in the least effort of the three gets rewarded with another test
- Frizell gets bought in to bring a big body, despite having almost zero rugby, and we've not seen him be the type of player who makes an instant impact (or much impact at all)
I don't think we'll end the year with any better idea of what our best team is, compared to before rugby kicked off in February. That says something.
I'd suggest a big part of that is the nature of this year's congested fixture list. They'd have to have managed workloads in the camp to get through two blocks of five Tests in a row.
FWIW given injuries and workloads, I'd say this is pretty close to the best team they can put out. Paps must be sore and tired now given his efforts this far. Vaa'i needs to continue his managed introduction to get more accuracy. Taylor started the season well and has dropped off so it makes sense to me that you'd replace him with a fit Dane.
I think it shows that they've picked too many players they don't seem to want to play - we've hardly seen Aumua, De Groot, Ta'avao, Ennor, Sotutu, and Lord (understandable).
So, this week we've gone back to future with Bridge when we could have gone with Ennor (conceivably, giving better 13 cover), and we're still yet to see opportunities for De Groot who might be our best young prop with ball in hand. We also don't see Sotutu or Jacobson, when this test would be the ideal one (if rest is needed) to put Ardie back on the bench where he belongs.
Ennor on the wing is a good call. Get him used to Test rugby so he can be a centre option (he's a million miles away at the moment).
Bridge is a failure at Test level and it's a waste of a spot. Problem solves itself when Clarke comes back next year, but for this weekend going back to Bridge just means no attack from his wing.
Bridge to score within the first 10 minutes then
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@arhs said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Are you being serious with those charges? Just looks like the whole squad is being managed through a long arduous program and opportunities given on merit for the commitment made and rest given where required
I just can't buy that when there are very good players left with very little game time and we see things like Perenara going a whole game when he's the worst halfback on tour.
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Just going to say I don't have the same sense of trepidation for this Test.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Just going to say I don't have the same sense of trepidation for this Test.
They have successfully lowered your expectations
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I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)... -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)...If it is a 2004 45-6 type of performance, then I'm sure ppl will be happy 😁
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)...Their form fluctuates a bit but not to to the point of being easy-beats. So if we win convincingly then we will have played well.
