Coronavirus - New Zealand
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What could go wrong with a bit of leadership from Russia on this.
France 24
Focus - Covid-19 in Russia: A health disaster driven by lack in trust in authorities
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Russia is one of the countries with the lowest vaccination rates and highest Covid-19 death rates in the world. With just over 30 percent of...
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10 hours ago -
So yesterday a location of interest in Nelson is a brothel, and then 10 new cases today...
Some people gonna have more than Covid to worry about me thinks!
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So yesterday a location of interest in Nelson is a brothel, and then 10 new cases today...
Some people gonna have more than Covid to worry about me thinks!
Nelson. Is it like the Hamilton of the South?
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So yesterday a location of interest in Nelson is a brothel, and then 10 new cases today...
Some people gonna have more than Covid to worry about me thinks!
Nelson. Is it like the Hamilton of the South?
Not many sea views in Hams. Nor sunny days.
So nah.
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@hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So yesterday a location of interest in Nelson is a brothel, and then 10 new cases today...
Some people gonna have more than Covid to worry about me thinks!
Nelson. Is it like the Hamilton of the South?
Not many sea views in Hams. Nor sunny days.
So nah.
I was just talking about the night life
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@stodders said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
This is the CDC's page on Covid vaccination for children and teens: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/children-teens.html
I agree that the benefits of vaccination for most children and young adults (even into their early 20s) is probably marginal, but that link has some hopefully useful information, and to paraphrase one of the points, even a child who shakes it off with no long term effects might still have a miserable few days off school that could have been avoided.
I am just trying to point out that collective public health benefits by mass immunization is a good and common reason alongside direct benefits for approving vaccines, and for people to get them, and that the process used to trial and approve the vaccines at every stage has followed standard protocols even if it doesn't seem like it. "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is" are words to live by, it just so happens in this case to not apply when looking past the surface.
The other thing is that some of the questions being asked here are used by some antivaxxers to deflect from the fact that they are anti-vax. I know that's generally not the case or the intention here at TSF as people are being cautious, especially for their children, not anti-science, but the questions do have legitimate answers, even if Tamaki and his crew can't quite believe it.
Speaking of public health, the herd immunity calculation is 1-1/R0. For delta, if R0=6, then that would make herd immunity 5/6=83.33%. Currently only 85% of the whole population are eligible, so 83.33% is basically impossible. If 5-11s are approved, that would be enough that 90% double dose would then be 88% of the population which might be enough. Delta has a lot of good reasons why that might be too low (we don't know R0 for certain yet, people can get it twice and after being vaccinated, it can spread to and from animals), but watching the bigger regions go well past 90% first dose, maybe there's still hope that we can get close with vaccination plus a few public health measures.
Your 4th paragraph doesn't help IMO. If there are questions, they need answering. When it comes to health concerns, there should be no such thing as a dumb question. If people raise concerns, the retort can't be "you must be anti-vaxx". If the science is clear, then the answer should be easy to provide.
This approach to using "anti-vaxx" is no different to people who questioned the benefits of staying in the EU (but not necessarily being pro-Brexit) being tarred as "gammons". It is a tactic to shame and nudge people into doing something without questioning it.
Sure, there are people out there who are anti-vaxx. Not a lot will sway them. Those that are cautious and are just critically thinking before making a decision are not one and the same.
I don't think people in here are anti-vax (that's my operating assumption) and this is a safe space to ask questions (hopefully). However, I also think it's important information that there are questions that are commonly used by antivaxxers to muddy the waters about the science, so people are aware of that when they see them on social media or elsewhere, and are not taken in by them.
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@stodders said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
This is the CDC's page on Covid vaccination for children and teens: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/children-teens.html
I agree that the benefits of vaccination for most children and young adults (even into their early 20s) is probably marginal, but that link has some hopefully useful information, and to paraphrase one of the points, even a child who shakes it off with no long term effects might still have a miserable few days off school that could have been avoided.
I am just trying to point out that collective public health benefits by mass immunization is a good and common reason alongside direct benefits for approving vaccines, and for people to get them, and that the process used to trial and approve the vaccines at every stage has followed standard protocols even if it doesn't seem like it. "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is" are words to live by, it just so happens in this case to not apply when looking past the surface.
The other thing is that some of the questions being asked here are used by some antivaxxers to deflect from the fact that they are anti-vax. I know that's generally not the case or the intention here at TSF as people are being cautious, especially for their children, not anti-science, but the questions do have legitimate answers, even if Tamaki and his crew can't quite believe it.
Speaking of public health, the herd immunity calculation is 1-1/R0. For delta, if R0=6, then that would make herd immunity 5/6=83.33%. Currently only 85% of the whole population are eligible, so 83.33% is basically impossible. If 5-11s are approved, that would be enough that 90% double dose would then be 88% of the population which might be enough. Delta has a lot of good reasons why that might be too low (we don't know R0 for certain yet, people can get it twice and after being vaccinated, it can spread to and from animals), but watching the bigger regions go well past 90% first dose, maybe there's still hope that we can get close with vaccination plus a few public health measures.
**Gibraltar is 100% vaccinated. Numbers are rising.
Portugal is 100% vaccinated. Numbers are rising**.
Evidence shows that both vaccinated and unvaccinated can transmit the virus. Having 80/90+ % vaccinated won't necessarily bring herd immunity. Look at Israel!
The benefits to 5-11 year olds of getting the vaccine don't yet outweigh the (albeit small) risks. That's why bodies like the JCVI haven't approved it for under 12s. More data and research is needed. It is right that we make sure it is safe for under 12s.
Are we talking infections? Or hospitalisations? Because there is a big difference
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@stodders said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Gibraltar is 100% vaccinated. Numbers are rising.
Portugal is 100% vaccinated. Numbers are rising.Not sure the number of infections v % vaccinated is all that relevant in the real world.
The vaccine is really, really good at stopping you being hospitalised and dying, with something like 90-95% of people in hospital from Covid being unvaccinated
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Friend of mine from home (rural stock truck driver) losing her job tomorrow (apparently) due to the vaccine mandate.
Although I think she should just get the jab, I find it interesting as from her perspective, she hardly interacts with people (and almost never inside) and can socially distance etc.
She’s a single mum and could be in a bit of shit down the road with this decision. I’m not sure why she won’t change her mind, but she seems set on it.
Apparently it was forced on her employer (access to meatworks I think she said). Given that most of her access to people there would be outside or in very well ventilated spaces, it seems a tough result if her employer wasn’t specifically requiring it.
I wonder how many others are being affected like this?
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@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Friend of mine from home (rural stock truck driver) losing her job tomorrow (apparently) due to the vaccine mandate.
Although I think she should just get the jab, I find it interesting as from her perspective, she hardly interacts with people (and almost never inside) and can socially distance etc.
She’s a single mum and could be in a bit of shit down the road with this decision. I’m not sure why she won’t change her mind, but she seems set on it.
Apparently it was forced on her employer (access to meatworks I think she said). Given that most of her access to people there would be outside or in very well ventilated spaces, it seems a tough result if her employer wasn’t specifically requiring it.
I wonder how many others are being affected like this?
Hate stories like this
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@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Friend of mine from home (rural stock truck driver) losing her job tomorrow (apparently) due to the vaccine mandate.
Although I think she should just get the jab, I find it interesting as from her perspective, she hardly interacts with people (and almost never inside) and can socially distance etc.
She’s a single mum and could be in a bit of shit down the road with this decision. I’m not sure why she won’t change her mind, but she seems set on it.
Apparently it was forced on her employer (access to meatworks I think she said). Given that most of her access to people there would be outside or in very well ventilated spaces, it seems a tough result if her employer wasn’t specifically requiring it.
I wonder how many others are being affected like this?
Is she the sole driver of the truck?
It's pretty shit given what you've written. How much employer compensation is there in NZ for forced Covid leave? I can understand how am employer may be willing to take advantage of this if they have to pay months of sick bills if one of there staff get long covid due to being unvaccinated.
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@victor-meldrew his point was on vaccine effects vs transmission so it is relevant.
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@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@victor-meldrew his point was on vaccine effects vs transmission so it is relevant.
In the real world the number of infections transmitted really isn't that much - it's the reduction in serious cases, deaths and hospitalisations (which cause big numbers of secondary deaths thru medical resources being stretched) which is relevant
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@victor-meldrew I completely to agree with that, but the pro mandates argument is that the vaccine has significant effects vs transmission thus your a bad person if you don't get it, even if your risk of hospitalization is extremely low.
I dispute this point because despite the trials data, as stated above there has been very rapid infections rates in 100% areas.
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@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@victor-meldrew I completely to agree with that, but the pro mandates argument is that the vaccine has significant effects vs transmission thus your a bad person if you don't get it, even if your risk of hospitalization is extremely low.
I dispute this point because despite the trials data, as stated above there has been very rapid infections rates in 100% areas.
Fair enough - though vaccination does reduce transmission by 60+%
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Portugal isnt anywhere near 100% vaccinated although Gibraltar is Different countries report against different targets. Our World in Data takes those results and puts them all as a % of the totalk population.
Portugal cases are rising but way less so and less steeply than in earlier waves
Meanwhile admissions to hospital aren't really rising
and the number of deaths is showing nowhere near the same rise as in previous waves or the increase in cases
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Portugal isnt anywhere near 100% vaccinated although Gibraltar is Different countries report against different targets. Our World in Data takes those results and puts them all as a % of the totalk population.
Portugal cases are rising but way less so and less steeply than in earlier waves
Meanwhile admissions to hospital aren't really rising
and the number of deaths is showing nowhere near the same rise as in previous waves or the increase in cases
Correct about Portugal. Not sure where I saw the 100% stat about them. Looking at ourworld, they have the world's 3rd highest vaccinated population
And yet the virus transmission rate is increasing...
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@stodders I guess the argument there is, would it be even more so if they had less vaccination, stands to reason if the virus is still there, with high vaccination rates, that vaccinated people will continue to spread it, supposedly slower given we know it doesnt stop transmission all together.
BUt the key data is hospitalisation rates, if these are steady despite the increase in infections, then it points to the vaccine doing its job, infection rates arent helpful, just assist in the scremongering.
BUt what it does point to is learnign to live with Covid, cos it is here to stay.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@stodders I guess the argument there is, would it be even more so if they had less vaccination, stands to reason if the virus is still there, with high vaccination rates, that vaccinated people will continue to spread it, supposedly slower given we know it doesnt stop transmission all together.
BUt the key data is hospitalisation rates, if these are steady despite the increase in infections, then it points to the vaccine doing its job, infection rates arent helpful, just assist in the scremongering.
BUt what it does point to is learnign to live with Covid, cos it is here to stay.
Infection rates? Old money. As far as I am concerned it is an irrelevant stat. Used by media or some governments to scare people, or for antivaxxers to prove that vax isn't working. Hospitalisations are the big stat now. Along with percentages of vaxxed vs unvaxxed people hospitalised