Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022
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This really is a disappointing result and it had to happen at sometime given the age of our bowlers and some batters.
Still suuuucks that the drop off the cliff is so rapid.
Funny that after the first test in India, I was hopeful and maybe expectant of our first series win over there.......
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@hooroo We are starting to resemble English Rugby 2004
Congrats to the Bangladeshi team. Hate it when losers focus just on their own deficiencies. Bangles outplayed us in every facet of the game Full credit etc
Need to turn this around quickly or could be a loooong summer of cricket...
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hooroo We are starting to resemble English Rugby 2004
Congrats to the Bangladeshi team. Hate it when losers focus just on their own deficiencies. Bangles outplayed us in every facet of the game Full credit etc
Need to turn this around quickly or could be a loooong summer of cricket...
Happy to see that Aussie are awesome again and NZ suck. Bloody good times....
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There were a combination of factors which caused us to lose that game.
One of them was the pitch and the weather conditions. In hindsight, that was a crucial toss to win. I think had we won the toss and bowled we could have got into their top order on the first day. Bangladesh won the toss and, although they could not exploit the conditions themselves, they stopped us from doing so. The hot weather baked and flattened out the pitch. Maybe batting last could have been difficult on that pitch but we didn't have the bowlers or the runs of the board to do it.
We also weren't properly prepared. Most of our team had not played test cricket since the Indian series. With COVID there is not much that can be done about that. I would say that this match does show the importance of making sure our test players are available for a few games of first class cricket early in the season.
There are plenty of negatives we could point out in terms of the performances. Of course, many people are looking for someone to blame. The truth is you can't blame how the team was selected.
Boult and Southee are two of our best bowlers ever, we know what Wagner brings and Jamieson's record speaks for itself. Given that we are going with four bowlers, we need a spin bowling all rounder in there. Santner and Sodhi have been tried and failed so it is clear why they went with Ravindra.
As for the batting, our whole team has great records. People think Nicholls is lucky to be there or should be dropped. However, his average is better than Fleming's. Although our team has shown a good uptick in results, I think people are deluded if they think we have domestic batsmen who can slot in and average 40 plus. Mitchell has a good record but it remains to be seen if he can retain that after playing more tests. The game did show how much we miss Williamson. If he had played, I doubt we would have lost.
The only thing I will add is that it is disappointing how quickly we collapsed. We didn't get to see a lot of fight today.
The other reason we lost is because Bangladesh were incredible! At numerous times you expected them to fold with the bat but it didn't happen. Their bowlers were really disciplined, even when they did not look dangerous. Let's not forget Bangladesh are missing Shakib and Tamin Iqbal.
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Good performance Bangladesh, poor performance by NZ, but that in part is because of their good performance.
Transitional time now for the batting line up, Kane back for Ross's retirement is essentially our batting line up for the next 5 years, so it might take a year of bedding in.
Next stop, the Hagley
GreenOval at which Southee and Boult will suddenly perform and we will salvage the series with an innings win. -
@act-crusader said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
An 8 wicket loss to the Bangles, you couldn’t script it but that is what we love about sport. It’s unpredictable, the against all odds can actually happen, underdogs do get up from time to time.
There will be massive questions asked about our prep, selections, captaincy and individual performances. And so there should be, but I tip my potae to the Bangles and the way they went about it. Their application and energy seemed a cut above any of their recent performances and more importantly in this match above ours.
Congrats.
To quote the great philosopher* million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
- Terry Pratchett
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Don't hold out huge hopes for a backlash at Hagley Oval The Craps look like a bunch of disinterested 3rd XI park cricketers.
Was thinking last evening that they need the rugby equivalent of hitting the tackle bags and a huge session on the scrum machine.
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Hubris.
That was a dire level of effort and performance from the Black Caps. Thrashed by the ninth ranked team in our own backyard.
The Black Caps played that game in a world where they just have to turn up, and the lowly ranked opposition will roll over for World Champs. Luke Ronchi may have been in the sun too long when he was talking about winning the game as late as last night; his charges went on to lose two wickets in about the time it took us to clear the bag check this morning.
Bowlers.
The Bangladeshi pace trio worked away constantly, with Ebadot by far the fastest bowler on display. They looked consistently dangerous. At times we looked like an early morning selection at Patrick's Pies. Ravindra bowled 20+ unmemorable overs.Changes?:
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Mitchell in for Ravindra. Little point in having a under-performing batsman and bowler at #7, regardless of pace v spin. Ravindra can find some form back in domestic cricket.
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It is very tempting to leave out Southee for just one game. For Henry or Patel, or whoever. Perhaps a short sharp reminder is needed about consistency. Or... it might just be that he's evolving into the proverbial Clouderson as his career reaches the end, and that is the best he has from now on? Am not entirely sure...
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Any random domestic keeper for Blundell may not produce a worse performance on current form - it reads like there is at least one good alternative out there on current form. There's no heir apparent in sport if you don't perform, and Blundell has done little of note to deserve that tag since the MCG.
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Taylor is very lucky Williamson is injured. Sentimentality is great, but if we want to retain that giant mace, we're a long way behind already.
Curiosity
How has Kyle Jamieson gone from a $2.86 million IPL contract last February, to eventually not getting a start for RCB, and reverting back past the mean with bat and ball for the Black Caps? Dunno, but Jurgensen, Ronchi, and/or the mental skills team have a bit of work to do.
Paint by numbers?
Gary Stead and Tom Latham. Their selections, tactics, and on-field nous are increasingly by rote; predictable and pedestrian. Latham is such a contrast with a former captain now up in the commentary box. Yes, we miss Williamson in many ways, but the contrast was still much bigger than expected.
But clearly you are overreacting based on one game?
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Don't blame the Black Caps preparation at all, it's an undeserved get out of jail card. They came into this series after playing two tests in India, both teams had to go through the same MIQ system, and the two day warmup game that the Bangladeshi's got saw only 20-odd overs bowled on day one thanks to rain. And which team was playing at home again? At a ground where we've beaten England and Pakistan in the first test of a series?
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The "hEnrY's piE cArT" retort; by that standard, see also on current form: Tim Southee, Kyle Jamieson, Rachin Ravindra.
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This is not entirely out of the blue. Ajaz's 10-for heroics in India were brilliant. But they also conveniently glossed over (a) how nonthreatening the bowling was at the other end from all concerned, and (b) the "we're in India so we need spinners" mindless selection of Will Sommerville over Neil Wagner, especially by the time of the second Test. The bowling at Bay Oval was primarily a continuation of that, especially from Southee and Jamieson. Boult has had plenty of prep time in the Mount lately.
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The pitch and/or the heat. Were pretty much consistent for the full five days, but it didn't seem to affect Bangladesh anywhere near as much...
Bay Oval
Put some more shade sails out the back somewhere, for goodness sake.
tl;dr: Black Caps levels of hubris = high.
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@hydro11 there is no doubt on a flat dry pitch our attack lacks a bit of cut through. No genuine speed merchants - the ones we have tried have broken down when a test match load has been placed on them. Spinners who are all rounders or just don’t get picked or even bowled. So losing the toss in hot dry conditions (when did we last have this type of heat for so long) put us on the back foot. Given that. the comments about Southee and Jamieson lack a bit of perspective. Let’s see how they go in next match.
For me Blundell has to be biggest disappointment - not a great wicket keeper but I thought he would make runs. Backs up India series where he averaged 5.75 ahead of Ross Taylor with 5, with two short stay ducks. Given his wicket keeping is poor he needs to make runs.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Hubris.
That was a dire level of effort and performance from the Black Caps. Thrashed by the ninth ranked team in our own backyard.
The Black Caps played that game in a world where they just have to turn up, and the lowly ranked opposition will roll over for World Champs. Luke "batting coach?" Ronchi may have been in the sun too long when he was talking about winning the game as late as last night; his charges went on to lose two wickets in about the time it took us to clear the bag check this morning.
Bowlers.
The Bangladeshi pace trio worked away constantly, with Ebadot by far the fastest bowler on display. They looked consistently dangerous. At times we looked like an early morning selection at Patrick's Pies. Ravindra bowled 20+ unmemorable overs.Changes?:
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Mitchell in for Ravindra. Little point in having a under-performing batsman and bowler at #7, regardless of pace v spin. Ravindra can find some form back in domestic cricket.
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It is very tempting to leave out Southee for just one game. For Henry or Patel, or whoever. Perhaps a short sharp reminder is needed about consistency. Or... it might just be that he's evolving into the proverbial Clouderson as his career reaches the end, and that is the best he has from now on? Am not entirely sure...
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Any random domestic keeper for Blundell may not produce a worse performance on current form - it reads like there is at least one good alternative out there on current form. There's no heir apparent in sport if you don't perform, and Blundell has done little of note to deserve that tag since the MCG.
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Taylor is very lucky Williamson is injured. Sentimentality is great, but if we want to retain that giant mace, we're a long way behind already.
Curiosity
How has Kyle Jamieson gone from a $2.86 million IPL contract last February, to eventually not getting a start for RCB, and reverting back past the mean with bat and ball for the Black Caps? Dunno, but Jurgensen, Ronchi, and/or the mental skills team have a bit of work to do.
Paint by numbers?
Gary Stead and Tom Latham. Their selections, tactics, and on-field nous are increasingly by rote; predictable and pedestrian. Latham is such a contrast with a former captain now up in the commentary box. Yes, we miss Williamson in many ways, but the contrast was still much bigger than expected.
But clearly you are overreacting based on one game?
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Don't blame the Black Caps preparation at all, it's an undeserved get out of jail card. They came into this series after playing two tests in India, both teams had to go through the same MIQ system, and the two day warmup game that the Bangladeshi's got saw only 20-odd overs bowled on day one thanks to rain. And which team was playing at home again? At a ground where we've beaten England and Pakistan in the first test of a series?
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The "hEnrY's piE cArT" retort; by that standard, see also on current form: Tim Southee, Kyle Jamieson, Rachin Ravindra.
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This is not entirely out of the blue. Ajaz's 10-for heroics in India were brilliant. But they conveniently glossed over (a) how nonthreatening the bowling was at the other end from all concerned, and (b) the "we're in India so we need spinners" mindless selection of Will Sommerville over Neil Wagner, especially by the time of the second Test. The bowling at Bay Oval was primarily a continuation of that, especially from Southee and Jamieson. Boult has had plenty of prep time in the Mount lately.
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The pitch and/or the heat. Were pretty much consistent for the full five days, but it didn't seem to affect Bangladesh anywhere near as much...
Bay Oval
Put some shade sails out the back somewhere, for goodness sake.
tl;dr: Black Caps levels of hubris = high.
This is reactionary. Jamieson averaged 30 in India; Southee averaged less than 30. Your genius idea is to replace those players with someone who averages 45 after one poor performance. Shocking, horrible idea.
Maybe we need to go back to being crap for a while so fans can stop acting so entitled?
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@kev said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hydro11 there is no doubt on a flat dry pitch our attack lacks a bit of cut through. No genuine speed merchants - the ones we have tried have broken down when a test match load has been placed on them. Spinners who are all rounders or just don’t get picked or even bowled. So losing the toss in hot dry conditions (when did we last have this type of heat for so long) put us on the back foot. Given that. the comments about Southee and Jamieson lack a bit of perspective. Let’s see how they go in next match.
For me Blundell has to be biggest disappointment - not a great wicket keeper but I thought he would make runs. Backs up India series where he averaged 5.75 ahead of Ross Taylor with 5, with two short stay ducks. Given his wicket keeping is poor he needs to make runs.
I would have expected Jamieson to offer a lot more in those conditions. I thought his bounce would trouble Bangladesh more. We all know that Southee and Boult need to swing the ball to be effective, which they weren't able to do. Our plan B has always been Wagner and Bangladesh dealt with him well in this game.
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@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
This is reactionary. Jamieson averaged 30 in India; Southee averaged less than 30. Your genius idea is to replace those players with someone who averages 45 after one poor performance. Shocking, horrible idea.
Maybe we need to go back to being crap for a while so fans can stop acting so entitled?I'm not replacing Jamieson anywhere in that post.
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@hydro11 ... and whether it's sarcastically genius or not, it was already being raised in the press last night, at the very least as a rotational thing at that stage. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300490128/the-first-lean-spell-in-the-career-of-black-caps-quick-bowler-kyle-jamieson)
Jamieson and Southee will expect more assistance from the Hagley Oval wicket in Christchurch in the second test against Bangladesh starting on Sunday, but after both played the two tests against India, one could be given a game off with Matt Henry playing instead.
