Coronavirus - New Zealand
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Apologies for the twisted knickers. I read @machpants post in a totally different light.
'fully vaccinated' against omicron is three jabs based on the science.
I never mentioned mandates and nor did he.
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actually in Australia the term "fully vaccinated" is out the window
it's now about your vaccination status being "up to date"
I believe this is in relation to the imminent phasing out of vaccine mandates, and also maybe as a nod to the fact that having 3 jabs doesn't stop you catching it, so the term is actually misleading (though i cannot prove either of these reasons)
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
actually in Australia the term "fully vaccinated" is out the window
it's now about your vaccination status being "up to date"
I believe this is in relation to the imminent phasing out of vaccine mandates, and also maybe as a nod to the fact that having 3 jabs doesn't stop you catching it, so the term is actually misleading (though i cannot prove either of these reasons)
It could also be that they want to discourage getting the 3rd jab for a while after you've had Omicron.
My booster just got cancelled because they want me to wait another 3 months now (apparently my chances of catching it again with double shot are really fucking low)
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
No. Not really
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination.It's also an argument for relaxing restrictions in the Summer/Autumn months to safely build up societal immunity to Winter flu - otherwise that will kill far more people than is usual.
Just surprised NZ doesn't seem to be learning from other countries on this.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
No. Not really
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination.It's also an argument for relaxing restrictions in the Summer/Autumn months to safely build up societal immunity to Winter flu - otherwise that will kill far more people than is usual.
Just surprised NZ doesn't seem to be learning from other countries on this.
It's getting more and more frustrating. Clearly many of the populace can't see it
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So, the flu basically.
The highly contagious version of the flu, which is a nasty disease. It's not quite 'just the flu'
Yet it does invite the question: Is the Ministry of Health considering making flu jabs quasi-mandatory?
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination.No. The question is valid.
Omicron definitely spreads fast. It kills people. It doesn’t kill many people in a highly vaccinated population. Therefore the health system is justified in making vaccination quasi-mandatory because it will stop people from dying.
The flu definitely spreads fast. It kills people. It doesn’t kill many people in a highly vaccinated population. Therefore, based on the same logic used for mandating the Pfizer vaccine, the health system is justified in making flu vaccination quasi-mandatory because it will stop people from dying.
I’m not comparing the virulence of the viruses, I’m asking about the response from the Ministry of Health. If they are internally consistent they should mandate the flu vaccination.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
No. Not really
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination.It's also an argument for relaxing restrictions in the Summer/Autumn months to safely build up societal immunity to Winter flu - otherwise that will kill far more people than is usual.
Just surprised NZ doesn't seem to be learning from other countries on this.
It's getting more and more frustrating. Clearly many of the populace can't see it
How much influence do the likes of Michael Baker have on the population?
Do they get to be questioned by the media?Trying to get a context to compare to here in the UK.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
No. Not really
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination.It's also an argument for relaxing restrictions in the Summer/Autumn months to safely build up societal immunity to Winter flu - otherwise that will kill far more people than is usual.
Just surprised NZ doesn't seem to be learning from other countries on this.
It's getting more and more frustrating. Clearly many of the populace can't see it
How much influence do the likes of Michael Baker have on the population?
Do they get to be questioned by the media?Trying to get a context to compare to here in the UK.
More at the start, less now. But the news outlets still trot out a parade of so called experts, and to date for the most part the shit they spout helps to keep people fearful of covid19
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A post on social media from Russell Coutts;
I'm heading to Wellington next week to join the protest. It's the first time I've ever felt compelled to join a protest.
I'm not anti-vaccine (I'm vaccinated) but I'm definitely against forced vaccinations.
I'm also strongly opposed to the ever increasing erosion of our human rights and the growing limitations on our freedom of choice. I believe in having the freedom to be able to question so-called "expert" opinion.
I'm against discrimination and the "them and us" society that is being promoted by our current political leaders.
I'm against creating different rights, laws and privileges based on Race.
I'm also against the irrational Covid rules that are currently being mandated in New Zealand, a few examples being;- The 10 day quarantine that still remains for international travel.
- The absurd rules where our kids (vaccinated and unvaccinated) can sit in the same classroom and play sport together inside the school yard, yet are prohibited from playing sport together outside the school yard.
- The absurd rules that prohibit two young unvaccinated brothers, living in the same household, from sailing together in a sailing competition because they would be within two metres of each other while sailing their boat.
- The rules that require one to put on a mask to walk to and from the bathroom inside a restaurant when masks have already been removed while eating and drinking.
- The contradictory rules that allow unvaccinated people to take a domestic flight (with a negative Covid test) but prohibit a young unvaccinated kid from competing in their sport (outside school).
- The fact that our kids are forced to wear masks at school (even when it's well known that the surgical masks most of them are wearing are highly ineffective).
Finally and perhaps most important, I'm against the fact that some of our mainstream media have received payment from the New Zealand government conditional on them promoting government policy, propaganda and spin.
So yes, I'll be joining the protest in Wellington.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
A post on social media from Russell Coutts;
I'm heading to Wellington next week to join the protest. It's the first time I've ever felt compelled to join a protest.
I'm not anti-vaccine (I'm vaccinated) but I'm definitely against forced vaccinations.
I'm also strongly opposed to the ever increasing erosion of our human rights and the growing limitations on our freedom of choice. I believe in having the freedom to be able to question so-called "expert" opinion.
I'm against discrimination and the "them and us" society that is being promoted by our current political leaders.
I'm against creating different rights, laws and privileges based on Race.
I'm also against the irrational Covid rules that are currently being mandated in New Zealand, a few examples being;- The 10 day quarantine that still remains for international travel.
- The absurd rules where our kids (vaccinated and unvaccinated) can sit in the same classroom and play sport together inside the school yard, yet are prohibited from playing sport together outside the school yard.
- The absurd rules that prohibit two young unvaccinated brothers, living in the same household, from sailing together in a sailing competition because they would be within two metres of each other while sailing their boat.
- The rules that require one to put on a mask to walk to and from the bathroom inside a restaurant when masks have already been removed while eating and drinking.
- The contradictory rules that allow unvaccinated people to take a domestic flight (with a negative Covid test) but prohibit a young unvaccinated kid from competing in their sport (outside school).
- The fact that our kids are forced to wear masks at school (even when it's well known that the surgical masks most of them are wearing are highly ineffective).
Finally and perhaps most important, I'm against the fact that some of our mainstream media have received payment from the New Zealand government conditional on them promoting government policy, propaganda and spin.
So yes, I'll be joining the protest in Wellington.
Any background to that last point re Govt paid media?
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
A post on social media from Russell Coutts;
I'm heading to Wellington next week to join the protest. It's the first time I've ever felt compelled to join a protest.
I'm not anti-vaccine (I'm vaccinated) but I'm definitely against forced vaccinations.
I'm also strongly opposed to the ever increasing erosion of our human rights and the growing limitations on our freedom of choice. I believe in having the freedom to be able to question so-called "expert" opinion.
I'm against discrimination and the "them and us" society that is being promoted by our current political leaders.
I'm against creating different rights, laws and privileges based on Race.
I'm also against the irrational Covid rules that are currently being mandated in New Zealand, a few examples being;- The 10 day quarantine that still remains for international travel.
- The absurd rules where our kids (vaccinated and unvaccinated) can sit in the same classroom and play sport together inside the school yard, yet are prohibited from playing sport together outside the school yard.
- The absurd rules that prohibit two young unvaccinated brothers, living in the same household, from sailing together in a sailing competition because they would be within two metres of each other while sailing their boat.
- The rules that require one to put on a mask to walk to and from the bathroom inside a restaurant when masks have already been removed while eating and drinking.
- The contradictory rules that allow unvaccinated people to take a domestic flight (with a negative Covid test) but prohibit a young unvaccinated kid from competing in their sport (outside school).
- The fact that our kids are forced to wear masks at school (even when it's well known that the surgical masks most of them are wearing are highly ineffective).
Finally and perhaps most important, I'm against the fact that some of our mainstream media have received payment from the New Zealand government conditional on them promoting government policy, propaganda and spin.
So yes, I'll be joining the protest in Wellington.
Any background to that last point re Govt paid media?
Sounds spurious. Maybe they get comped a few drinks at Bellamys
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This post is deleted!
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@toddy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
thaaaat doesn't sound suss at all!!
"I completely refute that" - Our dear leader.
State run media, central control, have heard this song before.
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@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
loooool
look at this fucking trash
Professional activist doesn't like this protest because "far right".
This is my absolute favourite bit
"If acting on my individual freedom means that I put another’s health at risk, is it worth taking that action? I say no.
That is why I have been voluntarily self-isolating, or close to it, for the past few months. If my world shrinking means another person lives, then it is worth it. If my inconvenience means our frontline workers can safely return home each night to their families, then it is worth it."
How about you continue to stay home then and let everyone else do their thing. This is the last dying gasps of people desperate for this to be the great panic of 2020, because you get to show how much you care.
Detached from reality
A friend of the family is unvaxxed and might even be at that protest (I doubt it as she is is a single mother).
She is (was) a stock truck driver, just one of the thousands of people going about their business making sure that food ends up on people's tables.
As I understand it, she was fired by her work (or at least put on leave) as she couldn't access 'public' places like saleyards that were covered by the vaccine mandate.
That's what i don't get about this - celebrating personal choice because you can self-isolate and not getting that others simply can't. This lady is getting pushed towards the poor house because she doesn't want to get a vaccine. I disagree with her stance, but from her perspective, she barely interacts with people, almost never inside, and is prepared to take her chances.
I reckon that's a bit dumb, but I don't see why she needed to lose her job.
And her workplace didn't want to let her go (she shows up, she's trustworthy, doesn't do drugs etc), but couldn't keep her because of the rules imposed upon them.
Surely this sounds like a workplace mandate, not a government mandate. i.e the workplace doesnt want her, and it has nothing to do with the government?
Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that govt mandates are for health, education, emergency services and prisons - and anything beyond that is up to the employer. -
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@toddy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
thaaaat doesn't sound suss at all!!
"I completely refute that" - Our dear leader.
State run media, central control, have heard this song before.
you know what, i have a certain level of admiration for what they are pulling off. They've honed in on what triggers to pull to ensure whatever they do is perceived as popular, and any criticism is written off as right wing propaganda. They've got the media on side, they've got the adoring world press on side. Social media loves her.
It's pretty fucking sweet politics.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@toddy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
thaaaat doesn't sound suss at all!!
"I completely refute that" - Our dear leader.
State run media, central control, have heard this song before.
you know what, i have a certain level of admiration for what they are pulling off. They've honed in on what triggers to pull to ensure whatever they do is perceived as popular, and any criticism is written off as right wing propaganda. They've got the media on side, they've got the adoring world press on side. Social media loves her.
It's pretty fucking sweet politics.
Until it isn't. The media are a fickle bunch and as soon as they smell blood in the water they'll turn on her and her party.
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okay, new favourite paragraph!!
Uni students in Dunedin had a party (shocking i know). This was very very early in the piece
"Police were called to the party on Thursday, about 11.45pm, noting no QR codes, no checks of vaccine passes, no numbers being counted, and no security"
i for one am socked, shocked i tell you, that a Thursday night uni piss up was not professionally organised to the standards of a hospitality venue. shocked.