The Education System
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="585930" data-time="1465460308">
<div>
<p>Firstly, I wasn't suggesting someone should just go to University to try it, but if there is something a student wants to try then they should do it. One semester isn't going to leave them with a crippling life long debt. Maybe Jegga can give us more insight but I think* the average new tradie can rack up a student debt too as they often have qualifications they need to obtain.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>* I<strong>'ve got a cousin who is a builder who had to do some training to even get in the running for an apprenticeship, I'm making an assumption that this is common</strong> but as I said Jegga (or other tradies out there) might be able to give us a better view.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Based on past experiences I'm not a fan at all of those courses, they aren't compulsory though. They are probably a good idea for people wanting to be electricians, gasfitters or plumbers imho .</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I hope you don't think I don't value or respect university and tertiary education .</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="585803" data-time="1465433121">
<div>
<p>I've been trying to let it pass but I no longer can!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What is WT Family? Wider Training Family?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>White Trash I assumed.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Re MBA's. In the US your career in finance is very much capped now if you don't have an MBA. Or even in general senior management. Its starting to go that was in the UK too. The path now is get degree, get job, work till 30 / 35, do MBA, get promoted. They are utterly worthless IMHO in terms of learning, but they are fantastic networking oportunities. You end up with this very high powered group of contacts all moving up & ambitious as fuck. That's really what an MBA is for. My ex did one at Harvard & said its literally $200k to meet 50 incredibly useful people who you can leverage to get jobs etc.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="585965" data-time="1465472744">
<div>
<p> My ex did one at Harvard & said its literally $200k to meet 50 incredibly useful people who you can leverage to get jobs etc.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>
Did it actually get him a promotion?</p> -
<p>A friend of mine aced Law at uni and went to England and was a builder and then came back to NZ to study Physiotherapy but is now currently training in Pharmacueticals.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Fair to say that at 40, it has taken him a while to decide what he wants to do. Now designing drugs to fight Cancer (I think)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He is incredibly bright but you wouldn't know that upon first meeting him</p> -
<p>In the past tradies were often thought of as those who took woodwork/metalwork at school instead of a science, I even remember the relatively new Computer science classes in my 6th form year was often thought of as 'bailout' option for the dummies.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Nowadays, it is huge business...plus keeping up with the ever changing world of legislative requirements for your job makes it even tougher.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think the armed forces would be a great way to start a career.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="586013" data-time="1465507063">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p>I think the armed forces would be a great way to start a career.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm always pleased at how popular their stands (and the Police stands) are at careers expos. We get told off on the occasions that we haven't managed to get them along :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="585965" data-time="1465472744"><p>White Trash I assumed.<br>
<br>
Re MBA's. In the US your career in finance is very much capped now if you don't have an MBA. Or even in general senior management. Its starting to go that was in the UK too. The path now is get degree, get job, work till 30 / 35, do MBA, get promoted. They are utterly worthless IMHO in terms of learning, but they are fantastic networking oportunities. You end up with this very high powered group of contacts all moving up & ambitious as fuck. That's really what an MBA is for. My ex did one at Harvard & said its literally $200k to meet 50 incredibly useful people who you can leverage to get jobs etc.</p></blockquote>
<br>
Yeah, that's pretty much it Gollum. People who come back into an organisation with an MBA are really armed with options. The promotions come to stop them from using those options. It seldom works long term and most banks don't mind too much if someone rotates out to a competitor as a lot of the time they'll be back at a higher level some time later in their career with external experience to contribute. -
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">I was made redundant almost 2 years ago. </span></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">Obviously the decision for the restructure was a long drawn out process, so I knew well in advance it was happening. </span></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">2 months before my job was to finish, I applied for the Police.</span></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">I passed all the initial testings (academic, physical, psychometric) and it was just awaiting the interview. </span></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">What I did find odd, was when I went to the 1<sup>st</sup></span> stage of the PT, there were about 30 people, of wide ranging ages and backgrounds, 75/25 gender split I would say.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">Of those 30, only 5 of us that passed the PT, and 3 of those were back for their 2<sup>nd</sup></span> go.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">What amazed me was how far some of them missed the fairly modest requirements by, and worse, they have these requirements on the website you apply through, yet such a large number missed by a long way, I cant understand how or why they would do that - did they just expect to pass, did they not do any training or test themselves beforehand? </span></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:calibri;">As it turned out, the timing for the interview and some other requirements (week of ride-alongs) by the police prior to the interview didn’t work out for me, I eventually withdrew my application.</span></span></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="585649" data-time="1465371350"><p>
He's not (known to me)!<br><br>
What has he got to say? I watched for the first 60 seconds and he said nothing. Not promising for investing a further 27 minutes.<br><br></p></blockquote>
<br>
Heres a small transcript:<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="https://imgur.com/gallery/BUXvr">https://imgur.com/gallery/BUXvr</a><br><br>
I like the point he makes for the most part. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="586031" data-time="1465511764">
<div>
<p>Heres a small transcript:<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="https://imgur.com/gallery/BUXvr">https://imgur.com/gallery/BUXvr</a><br><br>
I like the point he makes for the most part.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Kind of glad I didn't watch the video, that was fluffy as.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But basically his story is because he was hopeless at his passion then nobody should do something they love.</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(204,204,204);font-family:sans-serif;background-color:rgb(46,46,46);">Right now, millions of people with degrees and diplomas are out there competing for a relatively narrow set of opportunities that polite society calls “good careers.†Meanwhile, employers are struggling to fill nearly 5.8 million jobs that nobody’s trained to do. This is the skills gap, it’s real, and its cause is actually very simple: when people follow their passion, they miss out on all kinds of opportunities they didn’t even know existed.</span></p>
<p> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Then he makes this statement about people doing degrees and diplomas but apparently the skills gap is because people are following their passion - I'm pretty sure the majority of people doing degrees don't do it because it's their passion, that's not the reason they're missing out on these opportunities (which they may or may not want).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Personally, my job isn't my passion but it's not going to be the same for everyone as it is for me, or Mike Rowe.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="585937" data-time="1465463745">
<div>
<p>Based on past experiences I'm not a fan at all of those courses, they aren't compulsory though. They are probably a good idea for people wanting to be electricians, gasfitters or plumbers imho .</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I hope you don't think I don't value or respect university and tertiary education .</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>WIth pprenticeships - are there enough out there these days?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are there enough tradies that can take on apprentices? The cousin I mentioned above had to wait a year and do that course I mentioned at EIT.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="586006" data-time="1465506433">
<div>
<p>A friend of mine aced Law at uni and went to England and was a builder and then came back to NZ to study Physiotherapy but is now currently training in Pharmacueticals.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Fair to say that at 40, it has taken him a while to decide what he wants to do. Now designing drugs to fight Cancer (I think)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He is incredibly bright but you wouldn't know that upon first meeting him</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Incredibly bright people are often bored easily.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mate of mine since Uni - knew his computer shit inside out, was smart, articulate, but not exactly driven. A couple of family incidents (death of grandparent etc) knocked him around, so he quit about halfway through the course, getting Credit average without really trying.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Spent the next couple of years working at McDonalds, living with a house full of mates in Sydney. Got a job with a a big printer manufacturer in their service department, and did well out of that. More personal shit (long-term GF split) and then quit and tried something else in sales. Didn't like it, ended up driving buses, met a girl on the northern beaches, and now has two little blokes.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Drives buses, probably makes similar bank to me, and will have a bitching pension plan. He likes the social aspect of driving a bus, and it gives him a lot of time to just think about stuff.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Tradies here make a fucking bomb, but then you can understand it; if your toilet is leaking shit everywhere you'll pay anything. I quote $1K to build someone a basic website and they're outraged.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="586043" data-time="1465517140">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>WIth pprenticeships - are there enough out there these days?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are there enough tradies that can take on apprentices? The cousin I mentioned above had to wait a year and do that course I mentioned at EIT.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't know if there are enough tradies prepared to take on apprentices these days . It probably varies region to region and across the trades. Some trades like upholstery don't have a lot of people entering them from what I've been told.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My past experience of employing three apprentices who have done those courses and worked with a few more is, the course makes them think they are further along towards a qualification than they actually are. Every single apprentice I've worked basically expected that they only had to show up every day for another couple of years and I'd just tell them one morning they were qualified. The truth is they all had three or more likely four years ahead of them still which kind of negates the point of the course a fair bit. When I broke the news to them about this they always protested and then I would ask them three or four questions that any qualified builder should know the answers to. None of them ever answered a single one, following it up with a few more usually got the point across. It would suck if you finished the course and then realised after a year of no income and a student loan that you didn't actually like working out in the weather etc , lots of guys I've worked with liked the idea of being a builder but they didn't enjoy the reality of it. Its probably the same for lots of jobs like vets, nurses etc.</p> -
<p>probably another reason why Tradies dont wanna take on apprentices...</p>
<p> </p>
<p><img src="https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13394012_10153930066834681_1308891685357800382_n.jpg?oh=8e778e70d18cc9587e7a94a0f6e48329&oe=580FBD89" alt="13394012_10153930066834681_1308891685357"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="586120" data-time="1465539912">
<div>
<p>probably another reason why Tradies dont wanna take on apprentices...</p>
<p> </p>
<p><img src="https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13394012_10153930066834681_1308891685357800382_n.jpg?oh=8e778e70d18cc9587e7a94a0f6e48329&oe=580FBD89" alt="13394012_10153930066834681_1308891685357"></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Thats gold .</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have a theory that the sort of people who would have in the not to distant past found a repetitive boring job in a factory that provided them with a comfortable living before that job was outsourced to China are being steered towards building by careers advisors. Trouble is now we are licensed and have to provide warranties of up to 50 years no one wants these people , they seem to end up becoming roofers or painters. It's interesting to have a painting gang turn up and have two out of the three of them sporting home d ankle bracelets.</p> -
Sorry if this has been posted already:<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/07/the-craziest-demands-of-college-kids-in-2016.html">http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/07/the-craziest-demands-of-college-kids-in-2016.html</a><br><br>
I feel so lucky to have 99% hard-working students who wouldn't know what the fuck a safe space is. A friend of mine takes care of the (primarily US) exchange students, and he has some fucking hilarious stories. <br><br>
My favorite is when they called him when the fire alarm rang because they were 'afraid' and 'didn't know what to do'. Amazingly, he fought off the urge to say 'nothing, just stay right there'. -
<p>That's leftard lunacy at its very best (worst?) gt12.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Time for me to organise a safe place for white middle aged men. I think I'll call it the pub.</p> -
<p>I hear you brother.</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gt12" data-cid="586132" data-time="1465545305"><p>Sorry if this has been posted already:<a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/07/the-craziest-demands-of-college-kids-in-2016.html">http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/07/the-craziest-demands-of-college-kids-in-2016.html</a><br></p></blockquote>
<br>
Barmy. I loved this bit:<br><br>
more than 1,300 Oberlin students signed a petition calling on the college to make “C†the lowest possible grade such that no student would be deemed “below average.†<br><br>
I'm assuming none of the 1300 students were maths majors.