All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
There's considerable confusion regarding the interplay of Law 3.19, 3.20 and 3.30
Law 3.19: If a front-row player is temporarily suspended, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may not return until the period of suspension ends, or to act as a replacement.
Tu'ungafasi was temporarily suspended. Scrum called, so Ta'avao comes on and Papali'i has to leave to keep the numbers at 14 for the suspension.
Ta'avao is the replacement player.
Papali'i is the nominated player (#1)
Ta'avao gets red carded.
Law 3.20: If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.
Ross comes on for the scrum and Savea leaves.
Ross is a replacement player.
Ardie is nominated player #2. He can act as a replacement.
Suspension served, Tu'ungafasi comes back on.
Law 3.30: If a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area, except to comply Law 3.19 or 3.20, and only if the player has been medically cleared to do so and does so within the required time of leaving the field of play.
So Ta'avao is the temporary replacement. Tu'ungafasi can come back on to keep contested scrums. He does so at the end of his yellow card suspension and Ross departs the field. Papali'i must stay off as Ta'avao has been sent off. Ardie should be able to come back on now Ross has left the field.
These clowns (the officials) are supposed to know this shit backwards.
@number9 Read @antipodean's post above, will explain it to you. Not a brain explosion, fuckup from the officials. Foster/Shand were correct.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them. On the other hand, I desperately want these incompetent idiot coaches gone. Rugby is one of the very few remaining sources of national pride.
Well, that's all 7 million of us done for so. Wait till I get my hands on that salesman - he's a lot to answer for.
I met a slightly rude New Zealander once in Russia in 1981. Haven't talked with him since.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them.
What do you expect of a nation that decide neutrality was best during WW2?
And yet still secretly worked with the allies through their G2 department, allowed Allied military accidentally cross over the border in NI, arrested and jailed German spies who landed in Ireland, interrogated them and even helped crack essential codes that the Americans and British could not, according to the heads of OSS and MI5.
Very neutral.
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Irish have the best sense of humour in the world, fucking love going to Ireland. So much that I used to sneak over when in the forces at times when you weren’t allowed to travel to Ireland without permission ‘cos of the troubles. Going over for a Guiness and a good craic was not going to cut it as a reason with Intel and Security!
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The few Irish supporters I have met were great guys. And love the ABs
I’ve even met some Poms I’ve gotten on with in real life.
Shit I even married one, but she's says she's Cornish but not English
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@Victor-Meldrew Well if the probability was be second fiddle to Foster that would make sense.
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@Darren said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.that doesn't give enough credit to league, they often at least have a few players in motion and know how to tackle
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@KiwiMurph interesting how he comments about some of our players turning thier back on the attack...thats something you teach kids from a young age never to do.
Seems some of the basics skills are missing, or guys who are good defenders in thier super teams, turn into average ones at this level...maybe the defensive system is the issue?
Our poor defence is a huge part of our issue, we arent making enough tackles and putting pressure on opposition to make errors, providing counter attack opportunities for us...although now we would probably just kick it back to them anyway.
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
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@No-Quarter LF was all lost at sea, he needed to get tangled up with the outside one to highlight it, but it is something they do very well right now with those screens and lazy runners.
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i reckon they tend to get it right, and BA will catch the ball outside the last shoulder
This has been a thing for ages, the Crusaders were huge at it.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
i have to disagree, think they just executed perfectly, LF goes straight between those two guy, no obstruction, he's just too late and the ball is gone
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@mariner4life I was living in the UK in 2002 when the ABs toured and Woodward made a huge deal of our dummy runners, anything rugby at the time, was about our illegal dummy runners.
But I agree, Ireland are doing it well, sometimes illegal, but more often, right on the wire.
Again, it is simple stuff like this, we are not doing, and you need only look at our defence line which is staggered to see why they are picking it apart.
@Kiwiwomble it is LF, not Ardie, as above, he needed to tangle himself with the outside man instead of going right between them, more so when you watch the impact that man makes further down field (he is the one that clatters into Jordie and gets them right over the advantage line)
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@taniwharugby cheers, corrected
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
It looks like smart manipulation of our defensive screen to me.
We seems to get lost on defence all the time against the NH teams. This is not really new for Ireland so we have not worked out that they did this in the previous 2 losses recently.
The Crusaders have used this a lot in their attacking patterns using decoy runners at the defence and Mounga,Havilli and Jordan have been the reciever,yet the Blues defended it in the SR final pretty well as other teams did,but in the AB environment we don't know how to ?says a lot.
