Orlando shooting + terrorism thread
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="590792" data-time="1466657937">
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<p>I've not seen a reasonable defence. It has been labeled an error of judgment and an apology was apparently issued.</p>
<p>Very weak and unconvincing.</p>
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<p>Yet they still have not released the actual transcript.</p>
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<p>This sort of nonsense is what makes people very suspicious of Islamic Apologists like Obama</p> -
<p>I have to say, I'm rather dubious about this story:</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11661739'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11661739</a></p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">The man added: "He said the Muslim religion is a beautiful, beautiful religion, where everything is about love. Everybody is welcome. Gay, trans, bisexual... everybody.
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">Looks like some sort of false Islam PR campaign to me. Hardly seems in synch with the above transcript.</p> -
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/81376652/man-sentenced-for-islamic-state-propaganda'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/81376652/man-sentenced-for-islamic-state-propaganda</a></p>
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<p>Justice Collins has given this second fucker home detention.</p>
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<p>I would have thought he would be high on the list of people who would benefit substantially from getting a sharp dose of the reality of being in prison.</p>
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<p>Two years there and then an exit interview to find out what he'd learned.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="590797" data-time="1466661354">
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/81376652/man-sentenced-for-islamic-state-propaganda'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/81376652/man-sentenced-for-islamic-state-propaganda</a></p>
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<p>Justice Collins has given this second fucker home detention.</p>
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<p>I would have thought he would be high on the list of people who would benefit substantially from getting a sharp dose of the reality of being in prison.</p>
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<p>Two years there and then an exit interview to find out what he'd learned.</p>
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<p>Home detention is BS. He needs to be sent down, not with any fellow sympathisers either, he should need to room with someone like this guy</p>
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<p><img src="http://abload.de/img/albino22ojkn.gif" alt="albino22ojkn.gif"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="590793" data-time="1466658411">
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<p>Yet they still have not released the actual transcript.</p>
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<p>This sort of nonsense is what makes people very suspicious of Islamic Apologists like Obama</p>
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<p>I don't get the logic for censoring it. I understand they are trying to make this thing more about crazy people than Islam, but why go to these lengths? It's not like his ISIS sympathies were a secret.</p>
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<p>The most ridiculous thing about these types of events is the immediate "fear of reprisals" which never occur. You have to wonder sometimes if these self-proclaimed elites have ever spent a second outside their ivory towers.</p> -
<p>And now his former gay lover has admitted that he has HIV & told Omar. Omar apparently had a thing for latino guys. Dated 2. Thought he got HIV off one & went a bit shooty....</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.vox.com/2016/6/22/12002900/orlando-omar-mateen-lover-gay-latinos-hate-crime'>http://www.vox.com/2016/6/22/12002900/orlando-omar-mateen-lover-gay-latinos-hate-crime</a></p>
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<p>Univision aired a <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.univision.com/univision-news/united-states/orlando-massacre-was-revenge-not-terrorism-says-man-who-claims-he-was-gunmans-lover'>shocking interview</a> on Tuesday with a man who claims that <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.vox.com/2016/6/12/11911616/pulse-gay-nightclub-shooting-in-orlando-what-we-know'>Orlando shooter</a> Omar Mateen was his lover for two months — and that Mateen’s deadly rampage was specifically targeted at gay Latinos.</p>
<p>The man, who called himself "Miguel," spoke on condition of anonymity and had his voice and appearance altered for an exclusive interview with Univision Noticias anchor Maria Elena Salinas, conducted in both English and Spanish.</p>
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<p>Miguel told Salinas that he met Mateen on the gay dating app Grindr, and that after that they became "friends with benefits" for two months. He said Mateen was "100 percent gay," and that his wife knew.</p>
<p>Miguel said the FBI interviewed him three times about his relationship with Mateen. Univision wasn’t able to independently verify Miguel’s story, but said the FBI did confirm having met with him. Miguel also claimed that surveillance footage from the hotel he and Mateen stayed at together would prove that Mateen was with him.</p>
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<p>Miguel said he believes Mateen’s shooting spree that killed 49 people wasn’t an act of terrorism but rather an act of "revenge" against gay Latino men.</p>
<p>"He adored Latinos, gay Latinos, with brown skin — but he felt rejected," Miguel said. "He felt used by them. There were moments in the Pulse nightclub that made him feel really bad. Guys used him. That really affected him. I believe this crazy, horrible thing he did — that was revenge."</p>
<p>Miguel said the hatred of Puerto Ricans in particular was because Mateen believed he may have been infected with HIV during a threesome with two Puerto Rican men. He’d had a negative HIV test, but it was too soon to know if he’d gotten HIV from that encounter in particular, because it takes several months for antibodies to form.</p>
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<p>Miguel said he was shocked by Mateen’s actions because he knew Mateen to be a "very sweet guy" <em><strong>who loved to be cuddled,</strong></em> and who talked about how Islam is a religion of love. This description is a striking contrast with the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.vox.com/2016/6/14/11922576/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-gun-domestic-violence'>violent, volatile man</a> others have said Mateen was, and with Mateen’s stated loyalty to ISIS.</p>
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<p>Miguel speculated that Mateen may have pledged loyalty to ISIS because he wanted to "die a hero," and because of arguments he had had with his father, Seddique Mateen, over Islam and homosexuality. Miguel said Mateen’s father thought gay people were "the devil" and "have to die" — sentiments that were included in a<strong> </strong>Facebook video statement by Seddique Mateen the day after the shooting. Miguel also said Mateen believed that if his father found out he was gay, he would want Mateen to kill Miguel to "honor" his father and win his forgiveness.</p>
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<p><em><strong>It is still unclear how factual Miguel’s story is.</strong></em> But if his description of Mateen’s motives is accurate, it would be a remarkable twist in the emerging narrative of how and why the worst mass shooting and anti-LGBTQ hate crime in modern US history happened. It would challenge the idea that Mateen was truly motivated by terrorism or allegiance to ISIS. And it would mean that it was no accident the Pulse shooting happened on Latin night — that the attack was a hate crime specifically against gay Latino men.</p>
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<p>So this may not have been quite as Islam-y as BSG / The Donald desperately want it to be.</p>
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<p>Of course HIV & gays in the closet are REALLY not vote winners, nor something we want to speak of. Except Charlie Sheen. But he got it the good way.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590833" data-time="1466673065">
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<p>Thats the same story as I wrote above. <em><strong> I think it's bullshit.</strong></em></p>
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<p>Based on? Out of interest...</p>
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<p>He was a regular in gay nightclubs including Pulse. He had gay messaging apps & used them. He attacked a gay nightclub on latino night. His islamic terror ties previously were utterly farcical - he claimed he worked with Hamas & AQ. Who hate each other & activly kill each others members. IE not only did he pretend to be joined to 2 groups that was beyond stupid, his grasp of radical islamist groups was so shit he didn't even realise that what he was said was stupid.</p>
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<p>So you think its bullshit based on...?</p>
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<p>I admit it could be a made up story by this guy to get press - thats very possible, but its I'm not going to call bullshit on it because it actually is a LOT more feasible than "I'm a sleeper for an AQ / Hamas crossover & Obama helped me"</p> -
<p class="" style="font-size:12px;font-weight:bold;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Quote</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">The man added: "He said the Muslim religion is a beautiful, beautiful religion, where everything is about love. Everybody is welcome. Gay, trans, bisexual... everybody.
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">Based on this. For a start, it's not true. Secondly, it seems at odds at with everything else which has come out.</p>
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">I'm the first to admit, I may have been sucked in by a well-orchestrated media campaign to turn this into an Islam thing. </p>
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">But either the above is bullshit, or the transcript of the call is bullshit.</p> -
<p>Fucking amazing how quick some people are to believe someone who claims the shooter said "<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Muslim religion is a beautiful, beautiful religion, where everything is about love. Everybody is welcome. Gay, trans, bisexual... everybody."</span></p>
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<p>Yeah he sounds real credible.... jump on that bandwagon.... </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590839" data-time="1466674836">
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<p style="font-weight:bold;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Quote</p>
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">Based on this. For a start, it's not true. Secondly, it seems at odds at with everything else which has come out.</p>
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">I'm the first to admit, I may have been sucked in by a well-orchestrated media campaign to turn this into an Islam thing. </p>
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">But either the above is bullshit, or the transcript of the call is bullshit.</p>
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<p>It is an Islam thing. Lets assume that the guy was homosexual, his religion told him to hate and murder gays. When the guy was already fucked in the head, following a religion that hates homosexuals and wants them all dead.. that is an issue.</p>
<p>Not being fucked in the head would have helped.. not following a hateful religion would have helped.</p> -
<p>The essence of my point is that if he really thought it was a beautiful religion based around love and being welcome to anybody, then he certainly wouldn't have wanted the atrocities he was about to commit to be in the name of it.</p>
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<p>I find it hard to believe that he said that given other things he said, and how he has been profiled elsewhere. Which is where my cynicism of the above article stems from.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590849" data-time="1466676383">
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<p>The essence of my point is that if he really thought it was a beautiful religion based around love and being welcome to anybody, then he certainly wouldn't have wanted the atrocities he was about to commit to be in the name of it.</p>
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<p>I find it hard to believe that he said that given other things he said, and how he has been profiled elsewhere. Which is where my cynicism of the above article stems from.</p>
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<p>And it has the beauty of being impossible to prove false.</p>
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<p>So we have to ignore what the shooter actually said .. and take the word of some random guy?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="590844" data-time="1466676025">
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<p>Fucking amazing how quick some people are to believe someone who claims the shooter said "<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Muslim religion is a beautiful, beautiful religion, where everything is about love. Everybody is welcome. Gay, trans, bisexual... everybody."</span></p>
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<p>Yeah he sounds real credible.... jump on that bandwagon.... </p>
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<p>That's not actually the bit I was believing, but I see why you leapt on it like a fat kid on cake. And completly ignored the bit about him maybe not being an ISIS sleeper & actually being a gay guy outraged at being given HIV by a Latino.... cause if that came out as true all your rants on here about Trump being right would be a bit silly eh.</p> -
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<p><em><strong>It is still unclear how factual Miguel’s story is.</strong></em></p>
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<p>I tend not to give unverifiable claims any credence.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="590856" data-time="1466678102">
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<p>I tend not to give unverifiable claims any credence.</p>
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<p>True, and thats exactly why I bolded it, if only the same level of credence were given to him being an ISIS sleeper... when you actually look at the evidence as to the motive <em>neither</em> side is locked on, but the gay revenge motive has a hell of a lot more going for it (<em>from a purely evidential basis</em>) than ISIS. But ISIS fits a political narrative in the US right now & an agenda for a few posters. </p>
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<p>Lets face it "I'm a member of Hamas & AQ!" sets off a lot of knee jerks, but only in people who have a very poor undersatanding of the radical islam they are so outraged by. For people who actually have a vague idea it raises a "sorry? WTF!" moment.</p>
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<p>Noticable that in the US Obama & Clinton focused on the gay angle. Trump utterly ignored it & went political Islam.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590862" data-time="1466679185"><p>
Lets face it "I'm a member of Hamas & AQ!" sets off a lot of knee jerks, but only in people who have a very poor undersatanding of the radical islam they are so outraged by. For people who actually have a vague idea it raises a "sorry? WTF!" moment.<br></p></blockquote>
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Wait - you mean the same organisations that, along with the Taliban, are on the ISIS "People We'd Like To Kill More Than Infidel Westerners Because They're Muslims Who Don't Accept Our Caliphate" shit list?<br><br>
Next you'll be telling me you're geopolitically aware or something! -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590854" data-time="1466677666">
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<p>That's not actually the bit I was believing, but I see why you leapt on it like a fat kid on cake. And completly ignored the bit about him maybe not being an ISIS sleeper & actually being a gay guy outraged at being given HIV by a Latino.... cause if that came out as true all your rants on here about Trump being right would be a bit silly eh.</p>
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<p>Nice to see under the slightest bit of critique you resort to just making shit up. It is just so incredibly predictable. care to point out where I have ranted about Trump being right? No of course you wont, because it is just the Gollum way to make up verbose nonsense.. and then when criticised for his nonsense.. just make stuff up to argue against. </p> -
<p>Following a religion and ideology that tells you to hate and murder gays.. whilst actually being a gay.. that is a tough road to follow.</p>
<p>Could be that the religion is just monumentally shit and nasty.</p>
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<p>But of course the apologists couldn't possibly admit that...</p>