Orlando shooting + terrorism thread
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590833" data-time="1466673065">
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<p>Thats the same story as I wrote above. <em><strong> I think it's bullshit.</strong></em></p>
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<p>Based on? Out of interest...</p>
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<p>He was a regular in gay nightclubs including Pulse. He had gay messaging apps & used them. He attacked a gay nightclub on latino night. His islamic terror ties previously were utterly farcical - he claimed he worked with Hamas & AQ. Who hate each other & activly kill each others members. IE not only did he pretend to be joined to 2 groups that was beyond stupid, his grasp of radical islamist groups was so shit he didn't even realise that what he was said was stupid.</p>
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<p>So you think its bullshit based on...?</p>
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<p>I admit it could be a made up story by this guy to get press - thats very possible, but its I'm not going to call bullshit on it because it actually is a LOT more feasible than "I'm a sleeper for an AQ / Hamas crossover & Obama helped me"</p> -
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">The man added: "He said the Muslim religion is a beautiful, beautiful religion, where everything is about love. Everybody is welcome. Gay, trans, bisexual... everybody.
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">Based on this. For a start, it's not true. Secondly, it seems at odds at with everything else which has come out.</p>
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">I'm the first to admit, I may have been sucked in by a well-orchestrated media campaign to turn this into an Islam thing. </p>
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">But either the above is bullshit, or the transcript of the call is bullshit.</p> -
<p>Fucking amazing how quick some people are to believe someone who claims the shooter said "<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Muslim religion is a beautiful, beautiful religion, where everything is about love. Everybody is welcome. Gay, trans, bisexual... everybody."</span></p>
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<p>Yeah he sounds real credible.... jump on that bandwagon.... </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590839" data-time="1466674836">
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">Based on this. For a start, it's not true. Secondly, it seems at odds at with everything else which has come out.</p>
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">I'm the first to admit, I may have been sucked in by a well-orchestrated media campaign to turn this into an Islam thing. </p>
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<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;">But either the above is bullshit, or the transcript of the call is bullshit.</p>
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<p>It is an Islam thing. Lets assume that the guy was homosexual, his religion told him to hate and murder gays. When the guy was already fucked in the head, following a religion that hates homosexuals and wants them all dead.. that is an issue.</p>
<p>Not being fucked in the head would have helped.. not following a hateful religion would have helped.</p> -
<p>The essence of my point is that if he really thought it was a beautiful religion based around love and being welcome to anybody, then he certainly wouldn't have wanted the atrocities he was about to commit to be in the name of it.</p>
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<p>I find it hard to believe that he said that given other things he said, and how he has been profiled elsewhere. Which is where my cynicism of the above article stems from.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590849" data-time="1466676383">
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<p>The essence of my point is that if he really thought it was a beautiful religion based around love and being welcome to anybody, then he certainly wouldn't have wanted the atrocities he was about to commit to be in the name of it.</p>
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<p>I find it hard to believe that he said that given other things he said, and how he has been profiled elsewhere. Which is where my cynicism of the above article stems from.</p>
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<p>And it has the beauty of being impossible to prove false.</p>
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<p>So we have to ignore what the shooter actually said .. and take the word of some random guy?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="590844" data-time="1466676025">
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<p>Fucking amazing how quick some people are to believe someone who claims the shooter said "<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Muslim religion is a beautiful, beautiful religion, where everything is about love. Everybody is welcome. Gay, trans, bisexual... everybody."</span></p>
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<p>Yeah he sounds real credible.... jump on that bandwagon.... </p>
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<p>That's not actually the bit I was believing, but I see why you leapt on it like a fat kid on cake. And completly ignored the bit about him maybe not being an ISIS sleeper & actually being a gay guy outraged at being given HIV by a Latino.... cause if that came out as true all your rants on here about Trump being right would be a bit silly eh.</p> -
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<p><em><strong>It is still unclear how factual Miguel’s story is.</strong></em></p>
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<p>I tend not to give unverifiable claims any credence.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="590856" data-time="1466678102">
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<p>I tend not to give unverifiable claims any credence.</p>
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<p>True, and thats exactly why I bolded it, if only the same level of credence were given to him being an ISIS sleeper... when you actually look at the evidence as to the motive <em>neither</em> side is locked on, but the gay revenge motive has a hell of a lot more going for it (<em>from a purely evidential basis</em>) than ISIS. But ISIS fits a political narrative in the US right now & an agenda for a few posters. </p>
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<p>Lets face it "I'm a member of Hamas & AQ!" sets off a lot of knee jerks, but only in people who have a very poor undersatanding of the radical islam they are so outraged by. For people who actually have a vague idea it raises a "sorry? WTF!" moment.</p>
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<p>Noticable that in the US Obama & Clinton focused on the gay angle. Trump utterly ignored it & went political Islam.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590862" data-time="1466679185"><p>
Lets face it "I'm a member of Hamas & AQ!" sets off a lot of knee jerks, but only in people who have a very poor undersatanding of the radical islam they are so outraged by. For people who actually have a vague idea it raises a "sorry? WTF!" moment.<br></p></blockquote>
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Wait - you mean the same organisations that, along with the Taliban, are on the ISIS "People We'd Like To Kill More Than Infidel Westerners Because They're Muslims Who Don't Accept Our Caliphate" shit list?<br><br>
Next you'll be telling me you're geopolitically aware or something! -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590854" data-time="1466677666">
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<p>That's not actually the bit I was believing, but I see why you leapt on it like a fat kid on cake. And completly ignored the bit about him maybe not being an ISIS sleeper & actually being a gay guy outraged at being given HIV by a Latino.... cause if that came out as true all your rants on here about Trump being right would be a bit silly eh.</p>
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<p>Nice to see under the slightest bit of critique you resort to just making shit up. It is just so incredibly predictable. care to point out where I have ranted about Trump being right? No of course you wont, because it is just the Gollum way to make up verbose nonsense.. and then when criticised for his nonsense.. just make stuff up to argue against. </p> -
<p>Following a religion and ideology that tells you to hate and murder gays.. whilst actually being a gay.. that is a tough road to follow.</p>
<p>Could be that the religion is just monumentally shit and nasty.</p>
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<p>But of course the apologists couldn't possibly admit that...</p> -
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='
'> </a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590862" data-time="1466679185">
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<p>True, and thats exactly why I bolded it, if only the same level of credence were given to him being an ISIS sleeper... when you actually look at the evidence as to the motive <em>neither</em> side is locked on, but the gay revenge motive has a hell of a lot more going for it (<em>from a purely evidential basis</em>) than ISIS. But ISIS fits a political narrative in the US right now & an agenda for a few posters. </p>
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<p>Lets face it "I'm a member of Hamas & AQ!" sets off a lot of knee jerks, but only in people who have a very poor undersatanding of the radical islam they are so outraged by. For people who actually have a vague idea it raises a "sorry? WTF!" moment.</p>
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<p>Noticable that in the US Obama & Clinton focused on the gay angle. Trump utterly ignored it & went political Islam.</p>
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<p>Who said he was an ISIS sleeper? The issues around his sexuality due to the fucked up ideology he was raised to believe was pretty obviously the motive for his attack. If he wasn't raised following that ideology it is likely he wouldn't have committed such a heinous act.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="590918" data-time="1466723027">
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<p>Who said he was an ISIS sleeper? The issues around his sexuality due to the fucked up ideology he was raised to believe was pretty obviously the motive for his attack. If he wasn't raised following that ideology it is likely he wouldn't have committed such a heinous act.</p>
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<p>Nobody needs to have said it for Gollum to attack people for saying it......</p> -
<p>If he just wanted to massacre gay Latinos why stake out Disney Land? Do gay Latinos like hanging out there?</p>
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<p>The Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea may hate each other but someone may still support both of them for their desire to kill Romans.</p>
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<p>Same with the various Islamic Nutter groups. A fanatic who just wants to kill Western infidels isn't really going to give a shit about the geopolitical differences of these groups. They want him to kill infidels and that's good enough for him.</p> -
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html">FBI investigators say they have found no evidence that Orlando shooter had gay lovers</a><br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>On Tuesday, Univision aired a report in which “Miguel,†a man wearing a disguise to conceal his identity, alleged he had sex with Mateen after meeting him on the gay dating app, Grindr. He said Mateen had sex with other men too, including a threesome with a Puerto Rican who allegedly told Mateen, after having had unprotected sex with him, that he was HIV positive.<br><br>
But investigators do not consider the man’s account credible, according to one senior law enforcement official with access to the investigation.</p></blockquote> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="590894" data-time="1466714400">
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<p>Following a religion and ideology that tells you to hate and murder gays.. whilst actually being a gay.. that is a tough road to follow.</p>
<p>Could be that the religion is just monumentally shit and nasty.</p>
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<p>But of course the apologists couldn't possibly admit that...</p>
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<p>and yet somehow most of them don't murder gays. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="591181" data-time="1466755972"><p>and yet somehow most of them don't murder gays.</p></blockquote>
Do you mean just those in Western countries? Do you include people in say, Saudi Arabia, in that statement? I wonder what would happen if we held a gay pride parade there. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="590956" data-time="1466728710">
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<p>Same with the various Islamic Nutter groups. A fanatic who just wants to kill Western infidels isn't really going to give a shit about the geopolitical differences of these groups. They want him to kill infidels and that's good enough for him.</p>
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<p>I'd agree if he implied he just liked them, but he didn't, he claimed he was affiliated with both. Which is like saying you are a member the KKK & also the Black Panthers.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="591186" data-time="1466757524">
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<p>Do you mean just those in Western countries? Do you include people in say, Saudi Arabia, in that statement? I wonder what would happen if we held a gay pride parade there.</p>
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<p>Or even Turkey, where they agressively shut down a pro gay march last week. Turkey, Nato member, key part of war on Terror, country on the (not very) fast track to EU membership... </p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="590956" data-time="1466728710">
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<p>If he just wanted to massacre gay Latinos why stake out Disney Land? Do gay Latinos like hanging out there?</p>
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<p>You ever been to Disneyland Orlando? Its literally gay heavan. And smack in the middle of the little Havana / Purto Rico section of the US... fat todlers & flaming latinos as far as the eye can see, all losing their shit over princess dress up</p>