Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!
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@Bovidae said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Bovidae said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
England should have done the same for Jones, or did they not pay out the remainder of his contract?
I’m not sure but I think I saw it reported that Eddie’s contract was paid out. Either way it goes against the grain to sack a bloke and then restrict his career, whatever the payout.
I agree, but it would have been funny and just highlights the pettiness and hypocrisy from RA.
Yeah, they’re not highlighting the benefits of working for them are they? Employer of the year 🙄
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@nostrildamus said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Dan54 said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Stargazer said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Dan54 Didn't Deans "get another gig", or didn't he "go for another (international) gig"? Did he even apply?
Yep well apart from Eddie, I don't know any coaches that have reapplied after getting fired from test rugby. But you right he never tried, that I know of.
John Mitchell went on to coach the mighty Eagles.
Yep fair enough Nost, I also think that Cheika was kind of let go from Wallabies and doing Pumas now too, so perhaps I needed to think a bit more.Lol
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@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
Are they enforceable in Australia?
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@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
Are they enforceable in Australia?
Googled it;
"Restriction of trade clauses are enforceable up to a certain extent. In order for them to be enforced, they must protect the employer’s legitimate business interest (i.e. a trade secret) or the reputation of the business."
I guess player details and team tactics could be seen as trade secrets, but seems a stretch to me. Lawyer up Rennie and hit the gym.
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I’d think that it would go further than just a restriction on earning a living. What about future career prospects? Would age be taken into account? The effects on career prospects would be very different for a bloke in his 40s to someone in his late 50s/early 60s, no?
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@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
If he's being paid through to the end of the contract then maybe his is still actually contracted, just with a change of duties to 'sweet f a'. That way they control him.
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@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
If he's being paid through to the end of the contract then maybe his is still actually contracted, just with a change of duties to 'sweet f a'. That way they control him.
In either case it's very petty, and considering the changes likely to be made by Mr Maths, completely pointless.
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@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
If he's being paid through to the end of the contract then maybe his is still actually contracted, just with a change of duties to 'sweet f a'. That way they control him.
In either case it's very petty, and considering the changes likely to be made by Mr Maths, completely pointless.
For all we know it was a negotiated out. Remember that he has a family with him and maybe this situation suits them. They have time together and can plan a relocation in their own time.
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@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
If he's being paid through to the end of the contract then maybe his is still actually contracted, just with a change of duties to 'sweet f a'. That way they control him.
In either case it's very petty, and considering the changes likely to be made by Mr Maths, completely pointless.
For all we know it was a negotiated out. Remember that he has a family with him and maybe this situation suits them. They have time together and can plan a relocation in their own time.
Perhaps, Rennie doesn't strike me as a guy that dumb though. Family doesn't have to move if you get a new job, especially for a short period like a year.
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@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
If he's being paid through to the end of the contract then maybe his is still actually contracted, just with a change of duties to 'sweet f a'. That way they control him.
In either case it's very petty, and considering the changes likely to be made by Mr Maths, completely pointless.
For all we know it was a negotiated out. Remember that he has a family with him and maybe this situation suits them. They have time together and can plan a relocation in their own time.
Perhaps, Rennie doesn't strike me as a guy that dumb though. Family doesn't have to move if you get a new job, especially for a short period like a year.
True, but as I said, maybe he is happy with this situation.
So much assumption on his part happening in this thread and projection of personal thoughts without the facts of the situation. -
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
If he's being paid through to the end of the contract then maybe his is still actually contracted, just with a change of duties to 'sweet f a'. That way they control him.
In either case it's very petty, and considering the changes likely to be made by Mr Maths, completely pointless.
For all we know it was a negotiated out. Remember that he has a family with him and maybe this situation suits them. They have time together and can plan a relocation in their own time.
Perhaps, Rennie doesn't strike me as a guy that dumb though. Family doesn't have to move if you get a new job, especially for a short period like a year.
True, but as I said, maybe he is happy with this situation.
So much assumption on his part happening in this thread and projection of personal thoughts without the facts of the situation.Well, it's it's a discussion forum after all, for us to share our opinions and speculate.
Weird I have to keep reminding a few posters about this.
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@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Kirwan said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Crucial said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@taniwharugby said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Catogrande yeah the old restraint of trade clauses...but I guess if he is still paid in full through to end of year it isn't affecting his ability to earn a living, which is where those clauses usually come unstuck for most jobs?
If he's being paid through to the end of the contract then maybe his is still actually contracted, just with a change of duties to 'sweet f a'. That way they control him.
In either case it's very petty, and considering the changes likely to be made by Mr Maths, completely pointless.
For all we know it was a negotiated out. Remember that he has a family with him and maybe this situation suits them. They have time together and can plan a relocation in their own time.
Perhaps, Rennie doesn't strike me as a guy that dumb though. Family doesn't have to move if you get a new job, especially for a short period like a year.
True, but as I said, maybe he is happy with this situation.
So much assumption on his part happening in this thread and projection of personal thoughts without the facts of the situation.Well, it's it's a discussion forum after all, for us to share our opinions and speculate.
Weird I have to keep reminding a few posters about this.
Stating speculation as fact or strong likelihood asks for it to be criticised as well. Not referring to your post btw.
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Seems entirely reasonable of RA to me. Every senior exec contract I’ve seen has a similar clause. As others note, enforceability can be hard, but Rennie would need to actively challenge it
Many companies have stuff they’d like keep private, I can’t see why the Wallabies would be any different.
End of the day he’s getting paid out, I can’t quite accept the argument that it’s affecting his career by somehow making him irrelevant so quickly
As someone said, allowing him to work with a Tier 2 or lower country would be fairly harmless, though you’d rightly expect him to do that for free or to refund RA any earnings offset
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@voodoo said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
though you’d rightly expect him to do that for free or to refund RA any earnings offset
Nah, RA are the ones that terminated his contract (presuming his lawyer isn't a clown). Although it seems based on the reporting thus far that he's a contracted employee of RA's to fulfil various duties. If it stipulated he was the Head Coach, then it would be cut and dry that he's been replaced and the contract with RA has been breached, leading to remedies.
I maintain (in my ignorance) that Head Coach isn't full of trade secrets. We know how they play based on extensive analysis. We know that Eddie would change how they play (and some selections). There's nothing I can think of material Rennie could advise other Unions.
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@antipodean Fair point in that the exit was (presumably) employer-driven. At the same time, it's hard to make a case that's he been disadvantaged in some way give the full pay out.
On the trade secrets bit, it's an interesting one. Certainly any new coach will change things like gameplan and strategy up. But I think there would be some information that Rennie would take with him that could be extremely valuable to a competitor in a RWC year (i.e. short-term only) - a specific players weakness, another players lack of confidence, a combination that isn't gelling at practice, insight into certain mental deficiencies or cultural traits.
Maybe nothing major, but still worth protecting if you can
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From The Australian.
3 points:
- Does not appear to be a negotiated exit
- Jones is the Messiah, and McLennan is basically God for orchestrating his return
- the RWC, BIL series and Bled are as good as won for Australia
Dave Rennie sacked via Zoom, Eddie Jones returns as Wallabies coach
By JAMIE PANDARAM
SENIOR SPORTS WRITER
7:41PM JANUARY 16, 2023Dave Rennie was sacked over Zoom at 6am Monday morning.
The news was delivered via video conference by Rugby Australia chief executive Andy Marinos, who is in South Africa.
It came after Eddie Jones signed an offer from RA, worth about $4.5 million over five years, at 11.30pm last Saturday night. His appointment was ratified by the RA board on Sunday morning.
Rennie got off the Zoom call, packed his bags and flew home to New Zealand.
Jones will arrive in Australia next week to mount one of the most unlikely World Cup campaigns in history, with just eight months’ preparation and five games before their first pool game against Georgia, in Paris, on September 9.
The dramatic axing of Rennie, who had planned a World Cup campaign for three years, only to be sacked after holding an extensive, and expensive Wallabies camp in the Gold Coast last week where he went over game plans and strategy with 44 players, was a brutal end to a disappointing tenure.
Rennie managed just 13 wins from 34 games in charge of Australia, a win percentage of 38.24, the worst of any Wallabies coach with more than 30 Tests.
For RA, and chairman Hamish McLennan, the moment Jones was sacked by the RFU in December and became available, the wheels were in motion to oust Rennie.
He flew to London, had chicken wraps with Jones at a cafe just outside London, and orchestrated the remarkable deal.
And McLennan makes no bones about his expectations now.
“I absolutely believe we can win the World Cup, and I think it could be the greatest comeback ever,” McLennan told News Corp Australia.
“This thing can be fixed, and he’ll be a big of it, our turnaround.
“Buckle up, it’s going to be a fun ride.
“You wait, you get the Wallabies winning, we win the World Cup, we win the British & Irish Lions series, we win the Bledisloe Cup, it all comes back.”
That is Jones’ enormous task. He’ll oversee the Wallabies’ 2023 and 2027 World Cup campaigns, the Lions series hosted in Australia in 2025, as well the women’s Wallaroos’ program.
Dave Rennie had a horror record as Wallabies coach. Picture: Mark Runnacles/Getty Images.
Dave Rennie had a horror record as Wallabies coach. Picture: Mark Runnacles/Getty Images.
“His major focus is the Wallabies, and he’s going to oversee Wallaroos coach selection and make sure the women get access to the hub of the best thinking of rugby in Australia,” McLennan said.As for Jones’ reputation as a fearsome boss who has a high turnover of staff, McLennnan said: “We need an injection of toughness into rugby in Australia, that’s unique to us and a key differentiator, and I want it.”
Rennie’s assistant coaches Dan McKellar and Laurie Fisher remain in place for now.
“We’re giving [Jones] a lot of latitude, and everyone needs to hold their horses and wait for him to arrive,” McLennan said.
“I think it could be the best learning experience of their careers.
“Even two years ago, we were saying we need to think more long-term about the game and so we’ve been thinking 2024 for Eddie, never believing that England would cut him.
“Then they cut him, we’d had a pretty average spring tour, and we went into overdrive to try to secure him.”
Eddie Jones will have major decisions to make about the Wallabies players, none more so than these high-profile five.
Quade Cooper
The mercurial playmaker has been tremendous in his reincarnation as a Test footballer since returning in 2021, and had the five-eighth jersey sewn up until injuries cursed him. Jones blooded a player of similar ilk to Cooper- England’s Marcus Smith – in the past 12 months. Whether he will push for Cooper to keep the Wallabies’ No.10 jersey, or go for a more conservative player, will be key to the style he adopts for the World Cup campaign.James Slipper
The Wallabies captain has shown his leadership qualities on and off the field since taking over the role from Michael Hooper. But Jones may want a new leading voice, and this will be one of the major decisions he must make early in his tenure. With only five matches before the World Cup begins, the leading man and the front row must be settled. If Slipper cannot be guaranteed a starting spot at loosehead under Jones, he can’t remain the skipper.Michael Hooper
Australia’s most consistent performer, Hooper stood down last year to take a mental health break. Dave Rennie made Slipper the new team captain. Hooper has returned to the national team and hasn’t looked a step off the beat, but also seems to be thriving without the responsibility of being team leader. Jones is a fan of the player, but must consider what role Hooper has in the team leadership group.Will Skelton
The barnstorming behemoth has returned to the Test arena and put the case forward for his physicality making a difference. But Australia’s set-piece has regularly been attacked and demoralised by rivals. How Jones sets about fixing this, and where Skelton fits into the picture as a rare lineout jumper, will be telling.Jordan Petaia
Hailed as the wonder boy of Australian rugby, Petaia has struggled with form and injuries over the past four years. Many were still tipping the youngster to take the Wallabies’ fullback spot at the World Cup, but nothing is now guaranteed with Jones at the helm. He’s watched Petaia from afar, but whether he thinks the Queenslander is ready for the key role in 2023, or if Jones wants a better kicking option at the back, must be determined by the first Test against South Africa in July and persisted with throughout the World Cup campaign.
Rennie, sensing RA was not going to extend his contract beyond the World Cup, is understood to have agreed to terms with Japanese Top League club Kobe Steelers from October.But he was blindsided by his axing on Monday. As late as last week, he was rejecting the idea of Jones joining his coaching team for the 23 World Cup campaign.
Jones begins his second stint as Wallabies coach on January 29, and will need to get across all five Super Rugby teams’ plans before his first Test is played in Pretoria against South Africa on July 8.
“It is a wonderful opportunity for me to be able to come home to Australia and lead my nation to a Rugby World Cup,” said Jones, who previously coached the Wallabies from 2001-05.
Dave Rennie is understood to have agreed to terms with Japanese Top League club Kobe Steelers. Picture: Fiona Goodall/Getty Images
Dave Rennie is understood to have agreed to terms with Japanese Top League club Kobe Steelers. Picture: Fiona Goodall/Getty Images
“It is going to be an immense period for Australian rugby – as a proud Australian, it is a great honour to be able to come home and lead the national team during these years.“The Wallabies squad is a really talented group of players with good depth – if we can have everyone fit and healthy going into the World Cup this year, I am confident that we can go to France and break the 24-year drought of winning the Rugby World Cup.”
In a statement, Marinos said of Rennie: “Dave has been instrumental in developing much of the depth that we see in and around the current Wallabies squad; there are a number of players that are genuine World Cup possibilities because of opportunities that Dave has provided.
“The work ethic, the spirit within the group, and the way the team carries itself are all a direct result of Dave’s input – he has made a real mark on this group of players.”
JAMIE PANDARAM SENIOR SPORTS WRITER
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I agree with the decison ….
But this is one hell of a statement. I don’t think the Wallabies have the depth / players for this
You wait, you get the Wallabies winning, we win the World Cup, we win the British & Irish Lions series, we win the Bledisloe Cup, it all comes back.”What’s the view from GAGR?
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@Dan54 said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@nostrildamus said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Dan54 said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Stargazer said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@Dan54 Didn't Deans "get another gig", or didn't he "go for another (international) gig"? Did he even apply?
Yep well apart from Eddie, I don't know any coaches that have reapplied after getting fired from test rugby. But you right he never tried, that I know of.
John Mitchell went on to coach the mighty Eagles.
Yep fair enough Nost, I also think that Cheika was kind of let go from Wallabies and doing Pumas now too, so perhaps I needed to think a bit more.Lol
I forgot about him too, oops!
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@ACT-Crusader said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
@nostrildamus I think if it was a non-RWC year they may have waived that but to me it’s not about being nasty but more a face saving exercise by RA.
ok.
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@voodoo said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:
“You wait, you get the Wallabies winning, we win the World Cup, we win the British & Irish Lions series, we win the Bledisloe Cup, it all comes back.”
Sounds like a bar fly on the pokies - "Just one more tap of the buttons and I'll get it all back!"
As for McLennan's injection of toughness?
These are coddled idiots who appoint Community Rugby people who have never ever been involved in the game. RA HQ is bloated and self-serving and, despite having the broom put through it when COVID hit, could easily get rid of that many staff again to sharpen up the bottom line.
