Pick the next AB coach - two horse race
-
@ARHS said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Quite staggering that the posted arguments from last two years don't seem to be about the wider requirements of the role. E. G. Planning a 4 year rwc cycle in detail. Becoming the public face of NZRU and their strategy. Managing a wide array of coaches players and staff to work together for best team results and putting ego's aside. Managing the welfare and development needs of those individuals. It isn't all about finding a motivational gimmick for each match or keeping up with any new ploys and grey areas for officials or rotating squad to have them ready for home finals. I am glad a proper panel is being set up to consider the options because the choice will reverberate through super level and below. I will be happy with whomever they choose as they will be the best overall fit for NZ Rugby for next 4 years.
I have tried to call that stuff out in conjunction with highlighting that Robertson's success has been in excellent planning Super campaigns (a very different kettle of fish)
Of course the discussion then goes back to the ABF brigade.You make a very good point in that (hopefully) NZR are aware of all of these attributes required as AB coach and are looking for the best fit. It is important for this detail to not be lost in the 'overseas experience' one.
There are certainly examples around of coaches that have had success without any track record in these areas but also examples of where that success is very short lived and creates problems down the track or isn't sustainable. (eg the Eddie Jones factor)
-
-
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
You don't think that Gatland has been approached? Isn't interested?
-
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
You don't think that Gatland has been approached? Isn't interested?
There is zero in that article that explains the headline. Gatland is only contracted to Wales through RWC2023. At present there is nothing stopping him coming back to NZ and I haven't seen anything from him indicating that he isn't interested this time around.
NZR in the past have been very interested in getting him back here and that must be for a reason. -
Might be plenty of people who apply, but the guys holding trump cards are Razor, Joseph, Gatland and Schmidt (but, he's ruled himself out). I can't think of anyone with a record that doesn't get trumped by one of these guys - maybe Rennie has an angle?
I expect it to be Razor and I think it should be.
I counted up the other day and I think he's won something like 20 out of 21 knockout matches coaching Canterbury and the Crusaders - only the Mighty Ta$man Mako have got the better of him (and I'll forgive him that).
I think we will need something of a revolution in AB coaching and I think he's the most likely to deliver it.
And I really don't want him and BMac sitting in England plotting our downfalls!
-
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Razor is the better option, because coaches have a window in which they are at their best, looking at past successful international & title winning coaches it's generally between 40-55 years
Ted was 58 before he got the gig....
I read somewhere last week that Schmidt was considering throwing his name out.
-
@dogmeat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Razor is the better option, because coaches have a window in which they are at their best, looking at past successful international & title winning coaches it's generally between 40-55 years
Ted was 58 before he got the gig....
I read somewhere last week that Schmidt was considering throwing his name out.
I think he was throwing it in.
Then out.
-
@voodoo said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@dogmeat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Razor is the better option, because coaches have a window in which they are at their best, looking at past successful international & title winning coaches it's generally between 40-55 years
Ted was 58 before he got the gig....
I read somewhere last week that Schmidt was considering throwing his name out.
I think he was throwing it in.
Then out.
Schmidt's man-management style did not go down well at the latter stages of his Ireland tenure. Farrell is getting a lot more out of the team as their head coach, who's approach is more aligned with Razor's management style.
Joe is much better as an assistant coach away from the limelight & responsibilities of a head coach I think.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Don't really have an opinion between the two, but think NZR will go for Joseph. He seems to fit the NZR mould a bit better.
You might think that the NZR would question their mould though. Perhaps question if continuity is really the way forward.
(I voted Robertson, but I'm not particularly fussed.)
-
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
who's approach is more aligned with Razor's management style.
Gold...but you can't get away with throwing that out there and dismissing it.
Go on, explain - and the interesting but will be in how you know these details.
-
@Chester-Draws said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Perhaps question if continuity is really the way forward
continuity worked previously, but it is clear the game has moved a long way since our last success when we were still clearly #1 which was probably post 2015 RWC, FF to now and we are playing catch up, so we need to up our game, so I guess it all depends what JJ or Razor manage to sell NZR
Sure on any given day there isnt much between the top teams, but right now, if we played to our best, and were coming up against the French or Irish at thier best, we come 2nd.
We need fresh thinking.
-
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
You don't think that Gatland has been approached? Isn't interested?
kiwi=expat, mate you have to stop taking stuff articles as gospel, it's bacically clickbait and seemingly aimed towards overseas kiwis who don't seem to have other news from home. I don't mean just in sport, but the vast majority of their news etc seems same. Click bait for people who don't really read papers or see NZ news prgrammes. That was always my impression and even morte since I been back home.
-
@Higgins said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Dan54 said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Well I pretty happy with whoever gets the gig, it's been decided by people who know more than me.
If I vote it would be for JJ, I not sure I want ABs playing like a super team, and the whinge festival would be a thing to behold from all the experts on forums. LolI thought posters on here were the experts.
Well seemingly to the said posters they are, even those that don't go to rugby lol. The main scource of knowledge seems to be figures that they find somewhere on the net
-
@Chester-Draws said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Perhaps question if continuity is really the way forward.
I don't think any of the likely candidates can be considered 'continuity'. Unless Ryan decides to throw his name in the ring
-
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Either but Razor edges it if he has some experienced assistants. If MacDonald, Holland, etc, it seems the whole team would be on this massive learning curve.
I think experience is important. Some may forget that Mitch was only 38 when he coached the ABs in that 03 RWC. Deans was only 42-43 I think. Even though both had ādone thingsā, still pretty inexperienced.
-
@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
continuity worked previously, but it is clear the game has moved a long way since our last success when we were still clearly #1 which was probably post 2015 RWC, FF to now and we are playing catch up, so we need to up our game, so I guess it all depends what JJ or Razor manage to sell NZR
I'm just not convinced the problems centre entirely (or poss. even mainly) around the AB coaching set-up. Maybe it's just too easy to blame or praise whoever coaches the ABs, when there's real things which need to be fixed that are much deeper and harder to fix.
Give whoever get the job 2 years max, start looking at the structure of the game at the same time and review everything after that period.
-
@Bones Farrell, Razor are distinctly different personality types than Schmidt, they are assertive and outwardly assured, they set a strong tone upfront as the main man seated at the front of the bus, with assistants who handle the detail.
Schmidt is not that specific guy in an ideal coaching structure if you want to get the absolute best out of a team - he does not like to front in the media & the head coach is supposed be the face figure of the team and is supposed to embrace that aspect.
Schmidt has a more reserved inward personality, great rugby brain (hence better as a technical assistant) but to connect & resonate with young players in the modern era that isn't enough anymore. The most important skillset of a head coach in 2023 has to be man-management first and foremost. Technical knowledge is secondary and is filled by the assistant coaches now.
Farrell and Razor are motivators & inspirational leaders of men, that is their primary role to empower, inspire, motivate.
They are front and center - in the media, cultivating the team culture inwardly and outwardly:
Joe Schmidt interview: planning to live without a plan... for now
Murray Kinsella sits down with the former Ireland head coach to reflect on the Rugby World Cup, his new book and much more.
āI feel most comfortable coaching on the pitch, most comfortable even trying to analyze or develop a strategy because those things are probably what I perceive to be more my strengths, rather than having to be in the public eye.ā
An admission that he's more effective in an assistant coaching role and less effective in the hot seat..
Schmidt's unwillingness to handle the media and be in the limelight was well documented at Ireland.
-
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
More Wayne Smith than GH
-
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
to connect & resonate with young players in the modern era that isn't enough anymore. The most important skillset of a head coach in 2023 has to be man-management first and foremost. Technical knowledge is secondary and is filled by the assistant coaches now.
Farrell and Razor are motivators & inspirational leaders of men, that is their primary role to empower, inspire, motivate.
They are front and center - in the media, cultivating the team culture inwardly and outwardly:Can we keep the satire, parody and hero-worship to the Foster/Robertson thread where it belongs? This thread has been good so far.
