NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship)
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@canefan said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Stargazer said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Good luck to S Africa and Italy, who still have to play on this field. (Assuming it's the same field at Paarl).
I don't know if the conditions are typical for this time of year. But if so, this venue as an advertisement for rugby, is not good IMHO. Unless you want to turn back the clock to the 70s
What were they thinking playing all these games at one venue? Is it the same field for each match?
NZ not accurate enough - poor passing ( both execution and options ) and handling, and like the ABs our kicking game is not good enough. French team monsters.
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Interesting analysis on how U20s rugby in France got so strong:
https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/06/30/how-rugbys-top-ranked-under-20-team-has-changed-the-game/
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@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
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@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
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@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
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After watching the 2nd half it wasn't quite as bad as I expected it to be. Probably because NZ had more possession and looked good being direct. Unfortunately they couldn't stop the French pick and goes when they were on attack.
Even the scrum looked solid.
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@kev said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
What were they thinking playing all these games at one venue? Is it the same field for each match?
No, there are three venues:
Danie Craven Stadium (Stellenbosch)
Paarl Gymnasium (Paarl)
Athlone Stadium (Athlone, Cape Town) -
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
I guess I didn't understand your point then. I thought you were using Williams as an example of NZ picking size over mobility.
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@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
I guess I didn't understand your point then. I thought you were using Williams as an example of NZ picking size over mobility.
I was saying that when size is available we pick it in response to the comment about whether NZ would persevere with a big guy or not.
If we can get size and mobility then all the better.
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I remember an interview last year with tawara kerr barlow on SENZ and he couldnt emphasis enough on what is going on in France .
He kept banging on about it, kept saying stuff like, you have to actually be here to see what they are building , its like nothing ive seen anyway with their depth in quality coming through their ranks
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@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He's an exception rather than the rule due to his skill and mobility. We don't generally see too many big men in NZ rugby.
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
We have a far larger PI population to pick from than them so that tells me that less priority is placed on identifying and developing bigger athletes.
Skelton, Antonio and Meafou are born in NZ, so we clearly have large humans. Just need to start selecting them.
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@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
All the more reason to get a 'single market' in Super Rugby Pacific, so we can get the Brumbies to sign and train some tighties for us. The top down NZRU structure has created a silo.
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@Rapido said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
All the more reason to get a 'single market' in Super Rugby Pacific, so we can get the Brumbies to sign and train some tighties for us. The top down NZRU structure has created a silo.
Same Brumbies that choked in the big maul occasion against the chiefs? Yeah, Nah
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There are a few huge props in NZ SR teams (Ma'u, Tosi) but they don't get much playing time, so their development is hampered. There aren't big beefy locks though. Tuipolutu and IWL are the biggest but they can't be compared to the likes of Meafou, Tuilagi or Willemsee. Whitelock and Retallick are exceptional men who are gonna be very hard to replace.
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@Stargazer Paarl is in the western Cape who gets winter rains. This year we had a lot of rain , specially the last month. We dont complain after we nearly got day zero water three years ago. The Inland provinces have summer rains. The NH teams like England, France, Italy, Wales played at Paarl Gimnasium in the yearly Internal u18 tournament. So their current u20s are use to the conditions. I stayed a block from Paarl Gimnasium for 15 years and we walk line when the kids play with gum boots. The had to move our u16 provincial tournament this year from Markotter Stadium (Paul Roos home venue) due to the conditions.
