Wallaby EOYT 2016
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@mariner4life Yeah, sure is. I counted five players with Kiwi connections in this English squad. Hughes, Teo, Marko Vunipola, Hartley and Harrison. Billy Vunipola is born in Brisbane. Quality poaching from the hypocrites of world rugby.
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@akan004 said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@mariner4life Yeah, sure is. I counted five players with Kiwi connections in this English squad. Hughes, Teo, Marko Vunipola, Hartley and Harrison. Billy Vunipola is born in Brisbane. Quality poaching from the hypocrites of world rugby.
Yawn. If it helps, you can have Harrison back, he's not adding much
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@akan004 said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@mariner4life Yeah, sure is. I counted five players with Kiwi connections in this English squad. Hughes, Teo, Marko Vunipola, Hartley and Harrison. Billy Vunipola is born in Brisbane. Quality poaching from the hypocrites of world rugby.
Are you trying to be funny?
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Ignoring the poaching beat ups you do have to consider though about the resurgance in the NH recently being highly influenced by SH "imports".
Jones, Schmidt, Gatland, Lam, a plane load of players not only at a qualifying level but at club levels changing ideas of skills and tactics etc etc
It's certainly difficult to argue that this is some kind of home grown thing going on. -
Wouldn't personally say that for England on the player front. Teo, Hughes and Harrison (who's not very good tbf) have a handful of caps between them. Mako and Billy V have made big impacts, but they've been in England since they were kids. Not a fan of three year residency rule on the Hughes front. Sooner it goes to 5 years the better.
Jones has certainly made an impact though. Has managed to get the best out of pretty much the same group of players Lancaster had access to.
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@Margin_Walker said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
Wouldn't personally say that for England on the player front. Teo, Hughes and Harrison (who's not very good tbf) have a handful of caps between them. Mako and Billy V have made big impacts, but they've been in England since they were kids. Not a fan of three year residency rule on the Hughes front. Sooner it goes to 5 years the better.
Jones has certainly made an impact though. Has managed to get the best out of pretty much the same group of players Lancaster had access to.
Well, the fact that they require Harrison and Hughes to push the incumbents means they are filling important roles.
No mention of the captain? No mention that one of the most influential players for a number of years in club rugby has been Nick Evans (not to mention a host of other "retirees" that have spread training methods and tactics? I often read comments from local players saying how much imports bring in attitude change etc -
@ACT-Crusader said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@akan004 said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@mariner4life Yeah, sure is. I counted five players with Kiwi connections in this English squad. Hughes, Teo, Marko Vunipola, Hartley and Harrison. Billy Vunipola is born in Brisbane. Quality poaching from the hypocrites of world rugby.
Are you trying to be funny?
You clearly weren't around in the 90s when every English hack was throwing accusations at NZ for poaching PI players etc when most of them knew the makeup of NZ society. Just think it's a bit ironic nowadays as you don't hear a sound from them.
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For the Aussie fans, I should say that living in London, my Brit friends thought that was a game Oz could have won. Penalty against Maykoe rather than lucky try for Poms and it's 16-6 at half time. That might have been enough for Oz to play with belief and composure. Think Cheika and co. had done their homework and sent team out excellently prepared.
Wobblies seemed to crumble at some point in second and once they stopped tackling England were made to look a lot better than they are. Far cry from Wallabies side who went 21-0 down to ABs in first 20 and stormed back only to lose in last minute. Timani looked excellent in first half but appeared to disappear. And backs developed severe case of dropsies. But on upward curve. -
@Crucial said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@Margin_Walker said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
Wouldn't personally say that for England on the player front. Teo, Hughes and Harrison (who's not very good tbf) have a handful of caps between them. Mako and Billy V have made big impacts, but they've been in England since they were kids. Not a fan of three year residency rule on the Hughes front. Sooner it goes to 5 years the better.
Jones has certainly made an impact though. Has managed to get the best out of pretty much the same group of players Lancaster had access to.
Well, the fact that they require Harrison and Hughes to push the incumbents means they are filling important roles.
No mention of the captain? No mention that one of the most influential players for a number of years in club rugby has been Nick Evans (not to mention a host of other "retirees" that have spread training methods and tactics? I often read comments from local players saying how much imports bring in attitude change etcApologies for missing Hartley. His mother is English and he moved to England as a teenager, so I'm not massively concerned there. There are better hookers in the queue behind him at the moment anyway and he's there as an experienced head. Harrison and Teo both have English parents, so again that doesn't worry me massively. Hughes is more of an issue, but that's life until they change the rules.
Nick Evans? Yeah he's been good,as have plenty of SH players. Not denying at all that there's been a positive influence from the southern hemisphere. For me the primary reason for a resurgence (at least as far as England is concerned) has been the improved player pathway and club academies that are producing players capable of being a little more competitive on a world stage than they perhaps may have been in the past. Just look at the JWC where England have won it 3 of the last 4 years. These players are filtering through to the senior setup with recent experience of success at international level that perhaps wasn't there before. Perhaps some of that is the result of a SH attitude to youth development. Who knows?
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You only have to go down to a local club ground to see massive differences between the way rugby at those levels is played between NZ/Oz and U.K. A SH influence must certainly be coming in somewhere along the pathway, whether from coaches, imported players, or even trainers.
The obvious explanation for England's improvement is Eddie Jones. He may be a bit of a cock, but he does know how to get results as he has shown before. Without Jones England would probably still be as flaky and unsure of how they want to play as they were before him. -
@pakman said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
For the Aussie fans, I should say that living in London, my Brit friends thought that was a game Oz could have won. Penalty against Maykoe rather than lucky try for Poms and it's 16-6 at half time. That might have been enough for Oz to play with belief and composure. Think Cheika and co. had done their homework and sent team out excellently prepared.
That's the hard lessons I'm glad we're learning now. England learned a lot last year, and Eddie's appointment has done what I thought it would: cut through a lot of political bullshit to get the team pointed the right direction.
Can they get better? Maybe, but their only competition there at the moment is Ireland. They need to keep inching forward.
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@NTA you would have to think there are some mental blocks in this team at present though?
Despite being competitive for large patches in most of the games, they still lost a shit load.
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@Crucial said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
You only have to go down to a local club ground to see massive differences between the way rugby at those levels is played between NZ/Oz and U.K. A SH influence must certainly be coming in somewhere along the pathway, whether from coaches, imported players, or even trainers.
The obvious explanation for England's improvement is Eddie Jones. He may be a bit of a cock, but he does know how to get results as he has shown before. Without Jones England would probably still be as flaky and unsure of how they want to play as they were before him.There aren't a lot (if any) SH coaches coaching in the academies or England age groups. Eddie Jones has been great and has made a big impact (we're agreeing on this), but England are better than 5 or 10 years ago primarily because they are producing better players. Despite fluking a WC final in 07, we went a long time without bringing any players through who were even approaching world class. Eddie's not a miracle worker, as he's shown in the past when the wheels have fallen off some of his coaching gigs.
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@Crucial said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
Ignoring the poaching beat ups you do have to consider though about the resurgance in the NH recently being highly influenced by SH "imports".
Jones, Schmidt, Gatland, Lam, a plane load of players not only at a qualifying level but at club levels changing ideas of skills and tactics etc etc
It's certainly difficult to argue that this is some kind of home grown thing going on.Indeed.
NZ rugby was influenced by the Welsh in the 70s and French in the 80s/90s and I read how NZ coaches would go back to NZ with new ideas all the time as well as getting ideas from other sports. -
The risk with Eddie is that he outstays his welcome and once the novelty wears off the players will stop listening. He has a history of getting on the wrong side of things after a while.
He needs to lock in his probable squad for 2019 and have their buy in for the period (which he seems to be doing) -
@profitius different people thrive in different environments.
It'd be pretty naïve to think that NZ simply rests on its own success and only look internally, similarly other nations have used NZs success for ideas.
There was a piece about the new England soccer coach looking at the AB way as well, and I know the AB coaches have spent time with coaches from other sports as well, sure a lot seem to come to them, but I expect the learnings go both ways even then.
All about striving to become better.
