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@nta said in Aussie Politics:
Wow.
Which begs the question: was the Labor hierarchy aware of this incident and if so why didn't they do anything about it?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@nta said in Aussie Politics:
Wow.
Which begs the question: was the Labor hierarchy aware of this incident and if so why didn't they do anything about it?
When labour found out Dover Samuels got an underage girl in his care pregnant why wasn’t he sacked ?
When labour found out Darren Hughes tried to force himself on a drunk unconscious teenager why wasn’t he sacked ?
When the police were called to two previous summer camps over sexual offences why weren’t steps taken to avoid it happening a third time ?
Notice a theme?
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@rancid-schnitzel I believe many people were aware that an incident took place, but no-one (apart from the victim and her friend) knew exactly what it was.
He denied it strongly, so they backed him in. I bet many of them feel pretty foolish about that now, though.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
@rembrandt I'm not sure it's got anything to do with that industry. I think it's across the board - a powerful man abusing a woman at the start of her career. Happens everywhere. It naturally throws up a million questions in the mind of the woman, and any witnesses.
In this case, it appears the one witness was a close friend of the woman, and he respected her wishes not to push it further. That's a tough spot to be in.
To me it's not Weinstein. She didn't complain, nothing was 'covered up'. Everything was done per her wishes. It's a bit different to the Hollywood culture where this stuff was hushed up and victims paid off etc.
This is exactly the type of incident the MeToo movement was meant to be about. I guess it was inevitable it would get co-opted by radical feminists and lose credibility, but it's a shame as this type of behaviour really needs to be stamped right the fuck out.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel I believe many people were aware that an incident took place, but no-one (apart from the victim and her friend) knew exactly what it was.
He denied it strongly, so they backed him in. I bet many of them feel pretty foolish about that now, though.
I'm just wondering how people knew of an incident occurring if there were only two witnesses and both said nothing about it.
Either there were more witnesses or one or both of the known witnesses told someone.
The way in which Foley is being thrown under the bus would suggest the party knew about but was counting on it staying a secret.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
@rembrandt I'm not sure it's got anything to do with that industry. I think it's across the board - a powerful man abusing a woman at the start of her career. Happens everywhere. It naturally throws up a million questions in the mind of the woman, and any witnesses.
Well I already have a below zero respect for media as it is especially with their innate political biases these days. You're right about the million questions and that is an issue, instead of questions it should have been an instinctual principled "hey fuckface, get your hands off her" and that should apply to anyone who sees anything like this. If he is steadfastingly still denying it it will be interesting to see if others come out of the wood-work to speak out. You'd think chances are someone who is confident enough to do such an act in public and not face any repercussions until now could very well have done this before and since.
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I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
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@rembrandt said in Aussie Politics:
Well I already have a below zero respect for media as it is especially with their innate political biases these days
"These days"?
Decades of Murdoch at least being Kingmaker in Australian political circles.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
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@nta said in Aussie Politics:
@rembrandt said in Aussie Politics:
Well I already have a below zero respect for media as it is especially with their innate political biases these days
"These days"?
Decades of Murdoch at least being Kingmaker in Australian political circles.
Nick that is exaggerated and overblown.
There are people that have worked for Murdoch outlets that have tried to act like kingmakers, but Murdoch isn’t pulling the strings. The egos of the chief editors and some journos is where it happens.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
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@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
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@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
I'm not hung up on anything. It goes back to my whole point of who knew something and didn't say anything. Fair enough with Ashleigh herself, but not if others just brushed it under the carpet.
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Agreed. I read a bit afterwards with many discounting this approach by saying it won’t work everywhere, which is true. Nevertheless, I’ll bet it will work in a lot of places, so seems like one data and observational driven means of addressing the problems.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
I'm not hung up on anything. It goes back to my whole point of who knew something and didn't say anything. Fair enough with Ashleigh herself, but not if others just brushed it under the carpet.
But knowing ‘something’ but not everything may be the reason they didn’t say anything. There’s no evidence that anyone brushed it under the carpet. I think it’s clear that those that knew something were investigating it to try and find more.
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@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
I'm not hung up on anything. It goes back to my whole point of who knew something and didn't say anything. Fair enough with Ashleigh herself, but not if others just brushed it under the carpet.
But knowing ‘something’ but not everything may be the reason they didn’t say anything. There’s no evidence that anyone brushed it under the carpet. I think it’s clear that those that knew something were investigating it to try and find more.
Nothing is clear in this case. How can you claim that without knowing who actually knew or saw anything? Yes a journalist investigated it, but who else knew and did nothing? You simply don't have the answer to that.
Aussie Politics