Lions v Hurricanes (SF)
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Looks like Aso will be back. Stuff has an article suggesting that Goosen should stay in the side and not picking either Savea or Aso. That would be crazy. We need to pick Aso at centre so that Jordie can go to fullback and then we should put NMS and Julian on the wings. Goosen is probably worth a bench spot ahead of Jane.
Does anyone know the kickoff time yet? I'm guessing it will be 3 am.
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heard it was an afternoon k/o
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The team left Sydney for Africa on Sunday, with a full complement of players to pick from. That includes centre Vince Aso, who passed a Saturday morning fitness test and immediately flew out to join the team in Sydney. Hooker Ricky Riccitelli was the only potential injury concern out of the Brumbies game but, so far at least, has shown no ill-effects of a first-half hit that required a concussion test. -
Looks like a 12.30am kickoff time for NZ viewers. Past my bed time normally but makes it easy to stay up. Go the Canes.
Goosen on the bench I think. Aso to 13, Jordie 15, NMS 14.
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@Rugger-Quizzes said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
Looks like a 12.30am kickoff time for NZ viewers. Past my bed time normally but makes it easy to stay up. Go the Canes.
Goosen on the bench I think. Aso to 13, Jordie 15, NMS 14.
I agree. JB made a decent fist of 13 at short notice but Aso will give us more of a cutting edge and hopefully free up Laumape too. JB can inject himself into the line and kick 60m penalty goals
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Recon the Canes will do this. Saw some of the Lions shitty effort against the Shorks and they were fucking weak. Scrum half surely can't be the best they've got.
First Kiwi opponents for them and last for this year. Title fight will be in Christchurch methinks.
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@NTA said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
Recon the Canes will do this. Saw some of the Lions shitty effort against the Shorks and they were fucking work. Scrum half surely can't be the best they've got.
First Kiwi opponents for them and last for this year. Title fight will be in Christchurch methinks.
Faf de Klerk has had a shit season for them after being a revelation last year. Has meant that they aren't as strong.
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Pretty difficult one to call as the Lions haven't faced any NZ teams, but the fact they are the best of SA/Aus/Arg/Jap is not a fluke. They were great last year and have obviously continued with that (I haven't even seen them play this year!).
They'll be well up for it given they got so close last year and if the Canes start slow it might be a long day as the crowd wills the Lions on.
Should be a cracker of a game in (hopefully) good conditions for running rugby - can't wait.
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Will be interesting to see what happens here. I remember the Lions doing over the Highlanders last year. They'll always be dangerous at home.
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@hydro11 said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
Faf de Klerk has had a shit season for them after being a revelation last year. Has meant that they aren't as strong.
I think its another bloke - tweeted last night the 9 was shit and someone said they're missing deKlerk ?
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It annoys me that once again the incompetent super rugby administrators have stuffed up the semis. It should be 1 (Lions) against 4 (Chiefs) . and 2 against 3. These would have been great games. as it is the Chiefs will be stuffed with excessive travel. And if the Canes win likewise. But I should just accept how things are. Super rugby is being run by people who are not that good
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@NTA said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@hydro11 said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
Faf de Klerk has had a shit season for them after being a revelation last year. Has meant that they aren't as strong.
I think its another bloke - tweeted last night the 9 was shit and someone said they're missing deKlerk ?
Ross Cronje. Yea he had an off day as Elton with not taking his kicking boots. Faf has been on off this year, but he is going to Worcester after SR.
Ross has been brilliant all season, so I'll give the off day. News is that Franco Mostert brother, JP, who is the captain if the Flacons rugby, the East Rand of Jozzi, was in a car accident Friday night and it seems he has broken his neck.
Being a very tight knit team, I think it did play on their minds a bit.
But write the Lions off at your own peril. The Canes being the last team to win at Ellis Park on Rnd 2 or 3 in 2016. Since then the Lions has been undefeated at home.
So yea nervous about this game, but funny enough after the last round I was more nervous then facing the Guppies, now not really. I believe the Lions will take it through.
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@Winger said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
It annoys me that once again the incompetent super rugby administrators have stuffed up the semis. It should be 1 (Lions) against 4 (Chiefs) . and 2 against 3. These would have been great games. as it is the Chiefs will be stuffed with excessive travel. And if the Canes win likewise. But I should just accept how things are. Super rugby is being run by people who are not that good
I do accept that for the fans it is easier to know the draw. But if one wants the highest quality fixtures travel would be minimised. So if two teams in Africa for quarters and winning home one is highest seed then winning away team goes there might work. Which this year and last would have led to Chiefs staying and playing Lions instead of heading back. Stormers/Lions/Saders a hell of a lot easier than Stormers/Saders/Lions for example.
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@NTA said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@hydro11 said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
Faf de Klerk has had a shit season for them after being a revelation last year. Has meant that they aren't as strong.
I think its another bloke - tweeted last night the 9 was shit and someone said they're missing deKlerk ?
de Klerk was on the bench and has been there for most of the season.
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@Winger I don't think you can get that under the current format.
The Brumbies were the fly in the ointment with the least points but sitting in the 'top 4' with a home semi.
Only way it could work would have been if it was a true 1 v 8, but then Aussie would not have had a home final...which would have looked like this I think
Lions v Brumbies
Crusaders v Sharks
Hurricanes v Stormers
Chiefs v HighlandersWhich would likely have seen semis of....
Lions v Hurricanes
Crusaders v winner of Chiefs/Highlanders -
@taniwharugby said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@Winger I don't think you can get that under the current format.
The Brumbies were the fly in the ointment with the least points but sitting in the 'top 4' with a home semi.
Only way it could work would have been if it was a true 1 v 8, but then Aussie would not have had a home final...which would have looked like this I think
Lions v Brumbies
Crusaders v Sharks
Hurricanes v Stormers
Chiefs v HighlandersWhich would likely have seen semis of....
Lions v Hurricanes
Crusaders v winner of Chiefs/HighlandersHate to say it but I agree with @Winger
Would it be hard to implement the SFs being drawn on rankings in round robin?
They do that in AFL and I'm pretty sure NRL.
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@booboo said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@taniwharugby said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@Winger I don't think you can get that under the current format.
The Brumbies were the fly in the ointment with the least points but sitting in the 'top 4' with a home semi.
Only way it could work would have been if it was a true 1 v 8, but then Aussie would not have had a home final...which would have looked like this I think
Lions v Brumbies
Crusaders v Sharks
Hurricanes v Stormers
Chiefs v HighlandersWhich would likely have seen semis of....
Lions v Hurricanes
Crusaders v winner of Chiefs/HighlandersHate to say it but I agree with @Winger
Would it be hard to implement the SFs being drawn on rankings in round robin?
They do that in AFL and I'm pretty sure NRL.
Quoting myself ...
... or did we have that argument last year when the finals were fucked up then in another way?
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@booboo how would your finals format work, with the teams that finished as they did under existing ranking format?
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@taniwharugby In the semis you have the top ranked team play the lowest ranked team.
Lions finished highest after round robin, Chiefs lowest (of those remaining) after the round robin.
Then the middle two teams play each other, with the higher ranked team at home (Crusaders).
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@KiwiMurph said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@taniwharugby In the semis you have the top ranked team play the lowest ranked team.
Lions finished highest after round robin, Chiefs lowest (of those remaining) after the round robin.
Then the middle two teams play each other, with the higher ranked team at home (Crusaders).
That was the system last year and the teams agreed to the change to have less possible destinations and therefore less costs associated with holding multiple sets of flights.
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@taniwharugby said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@booboo how would your finals format work, with the teams that finished as they did under existing ranking format?
I cant see how it could have been done any differently as it stands.
Of the 4 teams that make the semis the highest ranked gets to play the lowest ranked, not the winner of a given game.
2nd highest plays the 3rd ranked.
Teams still have to wait to see who wins what to see where they travel to.
Where anomalies may occur is if a conference winner has an undeserved higher ranking. But we get that now.
(The AFL/NRL system does gives teams 1 through 4, and POTENTIALLY 5 and 6 a second chance, but there is an extra week of playoffs as only two teams drop out per week.)
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@KiwiMurph said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@taniwharugby In the semis you have the top ranked team play the lowest ranked team.
Lions finished highest after round robin, Chiefs lowest (of those remaining) after the round robin.
Then the middle two teams play each other, with the higher ranked team at home (Crusaders).
What he said.
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@Cyclops said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@KiwiMurph said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@taniwharugby In the semis you have the top ranked team play the lowest ranked team.
Lions finished highest after round robin, Chiefs lowest (of those remaining) after the round robin.
Then the middle two teams play each other, with the higher ranked team at home (Crusaders).
That was the system last year and the teams agreed to the change to have less possible destinations and therefore less costs associated with holding multiple sets of flights.
So it's about cost cutting.
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@booboo I guess it swings in round about then? With it looking good one year and not in another...NRL is different anyway with teams at the top getting a bye don't they?
What never looks good, is a team that isn't even in the top 10 of a comp, hosting a home quarter final.
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@booboo said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
That was the system last year and the teams agreed to the change to have less possible destinations and therefore less costs associated with holding multiple sets of flights.
So it's about cost cutting.
Partly, and to give the teams (and managers) some certainty of where they could be travelling to.
From a previous Stuff article I posted it stated:
The new structure means teams seeded third to eighth all have just two possible semifinal destinations, whereas the old system had two options for the third seed, three options for the fifth seed and four options for teams seeded fourth, sixth, seventh and eighth.
I agree that the new system is still not perfect either. You can't compare to the NRL and AFL as the distances travelled are much less.
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@taniwharugby said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@booboo I guess it swings in round about then? With it looking good one year and not in another...NRL is different anyway with teams at the top getting a bye don't they?
What never looks good, is a team that isn't even in the top 10 of a comp, hosting a home quarter final.
NRL give a life to the top two ranked losers and a bye to the top two ranked winners, so it's a 4 week playoff rather than a three week. If we're going to continue with conferences SANZAAR will have to look at byes because I think every final so far has involved one finalist having had to fly across the Indian ocean and one not which makes home advantage huge and a bye is the only way I can think of levelling that.
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I quite like the idea of reducing travel by having the two conferences find a winner - ie an Australasian playoff, and then an African playoff. Kind of like the NFL playoffs - with NFC and AFC champs playing in a Superbowl. Would mean that the travel is inside the conference, and that one winner from each conference plays the Super Final. Cuts out the insanity of teams like the Chiefs having to potentially play Aus - SA - NZ - SA to win the comp.
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@nzzp said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
I quite like the idea of reducing travel by having the two conferences find a winner - ie an Australasian playoff, and then an African playoff. Kind of like the NFL playoffs - with NFC and AFC champs playing in a Superbowl. Would mean that the travel is inside the conference, and that one winner from each conference plays the Super Final. Cuts out the insanity of teams like the Chiefs having to potentially play Aus - SA - NZ - SA to win the comp.
That's one option. They really need to find a way to give all teams that make the finals a reasonable chance. So the finals becomes a fair contest not the farce it is now
Even with this current structure if the super rugby administrators had anyone with any common sense at all they would have set up a slight adjustment to ensure that one team having a travel schedule of SA >> back to NZ or Aust >>> back to SA or likewise for a SA team would never happen
It would have been so simple to do this. In the situation we have where the Chiefs are in SA they would always play the SA team. Its not difficult to work out that the Chiefs situation might occur and to inset a clause where if it does the Chiefs will play the SA team to reduce travel. as it is they have changed the structure and made it worse. Its makes it almost impossible for the Chiefs to win (as they are stuffed with the travel factor). So one semi is almost meaningless. as the Chiefs / Canes semi was last year. and if the Canes win likewise for the final. And it happened last year for the Chiefs too so its not a rare occurrence.
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@Winger said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
Its makes it almost impossible for the Chiefs to win (as they are stuffed with the travel factor).
Unless they get up over the Crusaders, and then face the Hurricanes in NZ having travelled back from SA.
so yeah, basically impossible.
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@Winger said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@nzzp said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
I quite like the idea of reducing travel by having the two conferences find a winner - ie an Australasian playoff, and then an African playoff. Kind of like the NFL playoffs - with NFC and AFC champs playing in a Superbowl. Would mean that the travel is inside the conference, and that one winner from each conference plays the Super Final. Cuts out the insanity of teams like the Chiefs having to potentially play Aus - SA - NZ - SA to win the comp.
That's one option. They really need to find a way to give all teams that make the finals a reasonable chance. So the finals becomes a fair contest not the farce it is now
Even with this current structure if the super rugby administrators had anyone with any common sense at all they would have set up a slight adjustment to ensure that one team having a travel schedule of SA >> back to NZ or Aust >>> back to SA or likewise for a SA team would never happen
It would have been so simple to do this. In the situation we have where the Chiefs are in SA they would always play the SA team. Its not difficult to work out that the Chiefs situation might occur and to inset a clause where if it does the Chiefs will play the SA team to reduce travel. as it is they have changed the structure and made it worse. Its makes it almost impossible for the Chiefs to win (as they are stuffed with the travel factor). So one semi is almost meaningless. as the Chiefs / Canes semi was last year. and if the Canes win likewise for the final. And it happened last year for the Chiefs too so its not a rare occurrence.
Under the current format, this years finals format is probably the best system. I don't think any team is disadvantaged commensurate to where they finished on the table.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@Winger said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@nzzp said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
I quite like the idea of reducing travel by having the two conferences find a winner - ie an Australasian playoff, and then an African playoff. Kind of like the NFL playoffs - with NFC and AFC champs playing in a Superbowl. Would mean that the travel is inside the conference, and that one winner from each conference plays the Super Final. Cuts out the insanity of teams like the Chiefs having to potentially play Aus - SA - NZ - SA to win the comp.
That's one option. They really need to find a way to give all teams that make the finals a reasonable chance. So the finals becomes a fair contest not the farce it is now
Even with this current structure if the super rugby administrators had anyone with any common sense at all they would have set up a slight adjustment to ensure that one team having a travel schedule of SA >> back to NZ or Aust >>> back to SA or likewise for a SA team would never happen
It would have been so simple to do this. In the situation we have where the Chiefs are in SA they would always play the SA team. Its not difficult to work out that the Chiefs situation might occur and to inset a clause where if it does the Chiefs will play the SA team to reduce travel. as it is they have changed the structure and made it worse. Its makes it almost impossible for the Chiefs to win (as they are stuffed with the travel factor). So one semi is almost meaningless. as the Chiefs / Canes semi was last year. and if the Canes win likewise for the final. And it happened last year for the Chiefs too so its not a rare occurrence.
Under the current format, this years finals format is probably the best system. I don't think any team is disadvantaged commensurate to where they finished on the table.
And - of course - this will be the last year of the current format. Has anybody seen even a hint of how they're thinking about organising the whole comp next year, with 3 (maybe) teams dropped?
3 conferences of 5 teams each - NZ, Aus+Jp, Afr+Arg ? -
@Kruse said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@Winger said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@nzzp said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
I quite like the idea of reducing travel by having the two conferences find a winner - ie an Australasian playoff, and then an African playoff. Kind of like the NFL playoffs - with NFC and AFC champs playing in a Superbowl. Would mean that the travel is inside the conference, and that one winner from each conference plays the Super Final. Cuts out the insanity of teams like the Chiefs having to potentially play Aus - SA - NZ - SA to win the comp.
That's one option. They really need to find a way to give all teams that make the finals a reasonable chance. So the finals becomes a fair contest not the farce it is now
Even with this current structure if the super rugby administrators had anyone with any common sense at all they would have set up a slight adjustment to ensure that one team having a travel schedule of SA >> back to NZ or Aust >>> back to SA or likewise for a SA team would never happen
It would have been so simple to do this. In the situation we have where the Chiefs are in SA they would always play the SA team. Its not difficult to work out that the Chiefs situation might occur and to inset a clause where if it does the Chiefs will play the SA team to reduce travel. as it is they have changed the structure and made it worse. Its makes it almost impossible for the Chiefs to win (as they are stuffed with the travel factor). So one semi is almost meaningless. as the Chiefs / Canes semi was last year. and if the Canes win likewise for the final. And it happened last year for the Chiefs too so its not a rare occurrence.
Under the current format, this years finals format is probably the best system. I don't think any team is disadvantaged commensurate to where they finished on the table.
And - of course - this will be the last year of the current format. Has anybody seen even a hint of how they're thinking about organising the whole comp next year, with 3 (maybe) teams dropped?
3 conferences of 5 teams each - NZ, Aus+Jp, Afr+Arg ?Ah - ignore me, a very quick google, and indeed - discover it was all announced months ago. And looks like it could address most of the issues/whinges people have currently.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@Winger said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
@nzzp said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):
I quite like the idea of reducing travel by having the two conferences find a winner - ie an Australasian playoff, and then an African playoff. Kind of like the NFL playoffs - with NFC and AFC champs playing in a Superbowl. Would mean that the travel is inside the conference, and that one winner from each conference plays the Super Final. Cuts out the insanity of teams like the Chiefs having to potentially play Aus - SA - NZ - SA to win the comp.
That's one option. They really need to find a way to give all teams that make the finals a reasonable chance. So the finals becomes a fair contest not the farce it is now
Even with this current structure if the super rugby administrators had anyone with any common sense at all they would have set up a slight adjustment to ensure that one team having a travel schedule of SA >> back to NZ or Aust >>> back to SA or likewise for a SA team would never happen
It would have been so simple to do this. In the situation we have where the Chiefs are in SA they would always play the SA team. Its not difficult to work out that the Chiefs situation might occur and to inset a clause where if it does the Chiefs will play the SA team to reduce travel. as it is they have changed the structure and made it worse. Its makes it almost impossible for the Chiefs to win (as they are stuffed with the travel factor). So one semi is almost meaningless. as the Chiefs / Canes semi was last year. and if the Canes win likewise for the final. And it happened last year for the Chiefs too so its not a rare occurrence.
Under the current format, this years finals format is probably the best system. I don't think any team is disadvantaged commensurate to where they finished on the table.
For the Crusaders for sure it is (last year it was great for the Canes so I thought it was a great system
). They two other NZ teams that might beat the Crusaders (Chiefs and Canes) in the semis or finals are completely stuffed by travel. -
@Winger whether it's the Saders, Canes, Landers or Chiefs, whoever finishes top of the NZ conference are going to get an advantage come playoff time. If the Saders finished somewhere other than top I would expect the travel and the fate in the hands of other results.
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@Bones Please explain, you lost me.
