The new wine thread
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Had a 2001 Penfolds Cab Sav last night. So good.
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Duval Leroy Bouzy Champagne last night, thanks to a friend here in Tokyo. If you are looking to go large on a bottle, it's amazing, like fucking wow. Fully fantastic bottle of wine that also happens to be sparkling - 100% Pinot Noir and possible the best Champagne I've ever had. I've got a pretty nice looking Damien Hugot (Vielle Vignes) which I'll open at Christmas, so will report then.
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I only drink red wine, and probably drink as much Italian, Spanish, Chilean and Argentinean wine as I do NZ wines.
They're expensive but Sam Neill's Two Paddocks Pinot Noirs are very nice. I'm looking forward to more Central Otago Pinots when I'm down there over Xmas. In between the beers, of course!
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@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
All though taste wise I am with your cousin, that is a bit condescending. I reckon your palate gets to be familiar with a certain style and it is a matter of adjusting your appreciation for a different experience. Although in general I prefer old world wine there is an awful lot of shit on offer in France, Italy, Spain as well as some decent stuff. I hear a lot about Aussie and NZ wines from people who's opinion I respect, but up here it is difficult to find decent antipodean wine at anything like a decent price. I'd guess it's because you bastards keep the proper stuff for yourselves.
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I have nothing useful to add but in the past year I've tried to take my wine more seriously, but get absolutely lost when looking for anything in the store. Will keep an eye on this thread - thanks
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@catogrande said in The new wine thread:
@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
All though taste wise I am with your cousin, that is a bit condescending. I reckon your palate gets to be familiar with a certain style and it is a matter of adjusting your appreciation for a different experience. Although in general I prefer old world wine there is an awful lot of shit on offer in France, Italy, Spain as well as some decent stuff. I hear a lot about Aussie and NZ wines from people who's opinion I respect, but up here it is difficult to find decent antipodean wine at anything like a decent price. I'd guess it's because you bastards keep the proper stuff for yourselves.
To be fair he was only talking to me about it rather than being all hoity toity. When I tried one he liked it was like drinking from a pepper mill but I still enjoyed it and it did give me an appreciation of the difference in styles between the countries
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@catogrande not likely, we export all our best stuff for premium price!
I think you are right and beers are similar in that they are brewed toward local tastes; Grolsch brewed under licence in UK is different to Grolsch brewed under licence in NZ, and both are different to Grolsch brewed in Holland, so expect wines will be geared toward certain palates as well.
I know when I was in the UK I found the French wine market very 'upper class' and you generally looked down your nose at the new world stuff, similarly when Cloudy Bay was the SB to be seen to drink, despite there being plenty of far superior ones, it does come across as a very snobby world...
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@taniwharugby said in The new wine thread:
@catogrande not likely, we export all our best stuff for premium price!
I think you are right and beers are similar in that they are brewed toward local tastes; Grolsch brewed under licence in UK is different to Grolsch brewed under licence in NZ, and both are different to Grolsch brewed in Holland, so expect wines will be geared toward certain palates as well.
I know when I was in the UK I found the French wine market very 'upper class' and you generally looked down your nose at the new world stuff, similarly when Cloudy Bay was the SB to be seen to drink, despite there being plenty of far superior ones, it does come across as a very snobby world...
Of if the marketing is good we sell our worst at premium prices....
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@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
As Cato says depends on what price you are prepared to pay in France in order to not get absolute crap. The worst French wines would be by some margin less drinkable than their kiwi equivalents.
in general Kiwi reds are more fruit driven but we also sell and drink them really young. Give them a bit of bottle age and they become more old world in character.
However like all generalisations their are also plenty of exceptions to the new world/fruity old world/earthy rule. We have some very "French" style Bordeaux blends as evidenced by them doing consistently well on the international stage and being mistaken for French wines in blind tastings.
Our Pinots are very fruit driven but even there the Martinborough ones are far more classical in style than those of Central Otago.
Finally vine age really benefits the French producers with most NZ plantings in the last 10-15 years
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I think there is also a huge difference in purpose. Many kiwi wines are made to be drunk alone, as a result they’re often (to me anyway) too sweet in comparison to old world wines. But, as has been mentioned, there are plenty of exceptions both ways.
As I’m coming home during new year, i just bought a case from Chard Farm (Gibbston Valley), with a plan to drink a few while I’m there, and will bring 8 or 9 back. For anyone who hasn’t been there, it’s a beautiful spot for wine tasting, and they go hardcore at making wine for food - much of it requires a bit of interaction as they are a bit ‘thin’ compared to others saround, but with a bit of time and the right dish, it’s amazing. The riesling is a great aperitif too.
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@dogmeat said in The new wine thread:
@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
We have some very "French" style Bordeaux blends as evidenced by them doing consistently well on the international stage and being mistaken for French wines in blind tastings....
Finally vine age really benefits the French producers with most NZ plantings in the last 10-15 years
Yep, I tried some Gimblet Gravels Bordeaux blend a couple of years or so ago after reading about them in a blind tasting where they held up very well. I managed to source some in the UK and was quietly impressed. They had the finesse of a classed growth Claret, albeit one showing no real age. I've tried to get some more but they are not easily available and when they are the price is pretty steep.
And yep again. Vine age gives a great opportunity to add quality but not on its own. The vinification has to be good too. I have drunk a fair bit of "Vielles Vignes", that quite frankly are undrinkable.
And on the subject of undrinkable, at a recent wine tasting event I was given a glass of a Bordeaux blend from India. Filth.
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@catogrande It's a bit of a forgotten brand here but I still reckon that Church Rd reserve CS or CSM are a good example of a bourdeaux style red wine produced in NZ. I also have a bunch of aged Alluviale red wine from Gimblett Rd that I hope has not gone over the edge, now that Mrs CF and I don't drink a much as we used to (which wasn't that much)
Alluviale Hawke's Bay Merlot Cabernet Sauvignon 2015 - $39.95 p/btl!
$39.95 p/btl - Alluviale Hawke's Bay Merlot Cabernet Sauvignon 2015 from blackmarket.co.nz!
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@gt12 Wine and food pairings can make a huge difference. Some time ago I was invited to a wine and food pairing event run by Casilero del Diablo, the giant Chilean wine producer. All very nice and they went some way to trying to explain the complexity of pairing wine and food. The most stand to explanation was in regard to their Chardonnay. I'm not a fan of huge, fat, buttery chardonnay and sadly this was one of them. rink it on its own and it was like an alcoholic fruit juice. However try it after a mouthful of the paired food (Caesar Salad bites) and the difference was huge. The food softened the wine and opened spa far greater range of flavours. The wine expert was saying this is due to the egg within the Caesar dressing which affects a lot of the louder flavours in wine.
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@canefan Not heard of the Church Road brand. Do they export to the UK do you know?
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@catogrande I'd imagine they do. They won awards over 10 years ago then went quiet, I wonder if they don't fee the need to enter competitions anymore
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@canefan I've just tried them out on winesearcher and the Cab Say/Merlot Grand Reserve is only available in NZ
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@catogrande It's hard to know what you get there. Back in 1999 when I visited the UK for the first time they were selling White Cloud wine IIRC and it was a big deal. But no one drank that shit at home, a bit like aussies not drinking Fosters!!
CHURCH ROAD - FORGING A PROUD HERITAGE