The new wine thread
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Had a 2001 Penfolds Cab Sav last night. So good.
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Duval Leroy Bouzy Champagne last night, thanks to a friend here in Tokyo. If you are looking to go large on a bottle, it's amazing, like fucking wow. Fully fantastic bottle of wine that also happens to be sparkling - 100% Pinot Noir and possible the best Champagne I've ever had. I've got a pretty nice looking Damien Hugot (Vielle Vignes) which I'll open at Christmas, so will report then.
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I only drink red wine, and probably drink as much Italian, Spanish, Chilean and Argentinean wine as I do NZ wines.
They're expensive but Sam Neill's Two Paddocks Pinot Noirs are very nice. I'm looking forward to more Central Otago Pinots when I'm down there over Xmas. In between the beers, of course!
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@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
All though taste wise I am with your cousin, that is a bit condescending. I reckon your palate gets to be familiar with a certain style and it is a matter of adjusting your appreciation for a different experience. Although in general I prefer old world wine there is an awful lot of shit on offer in France, Italy, Spain as well as some decent stuff. I hear a lot about Aussie and NZ wines from people who's opinion I respect, but up here it is difficult to find decent antipodean wine at anything like a decent price. I'd guess it's because you bastards keep the proper stuff for yourselves.
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I have nothing useful to add but in the past year I've tried to take my wine more seriously, but get absolutely lost when looking for anything in the store. Will keep an eye on this thread - thanks
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@catogrande said in The new wine thread:
@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
All though taste wise I am with your cousin, that is a bit condescending. I reckon your palate gets to be familiar with a certain style and it is a matter of adjusting your appreciation for a different experience. Although in general I prefer old world wine there is an awful lot of shit on offer in France, Italy, Spain as well as some decent stuff. I hear a lot about Aussie and NZ wines from people who's opinion I respect, but up here it is difficult to find decent antipodean wine at anything like a decent price. I'd guess it's because you bastards keep the proper stuff for yourselves.
To be fair he was only talking to me about it rather than being all hoity toity. When I tried one he liked it was like drinking from a pepper mill but I still enjoyed it and it did give me an appreciation of the difference in styles between the countries
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@catogrande not likely, we export all our best stuff for premium price!
I think you are right and beers are similar in that they are brewed toward local tastes; Grolsch brewed under licence in UK is different to Grolsch brewed under licence in NZ, and both are different to Grolsch brewed in Holland, so expect wines will be geared toward certain palates as well.
I know when I was in the UK I found the French wine market very 'upper class' and you generally looked down your nose at the new world stuff, similarly when Cloudy Bay was the SB to be seen to drink, despite there being plenty of far superior ones, it does come across as a very snobby world...
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@taniwharugby said in The new wine thread:
@catogrande not likely, we export all our best stuff for premium price!
I think you are right and beers are similar in that they are brewed toward local tastes; Grolsch brewed under licence in UK is different to Grolsch brewed under licence in NZ, and both are different to Grolsch brewed in Holland, so expect wines will be geared toward certain palates as well.
I know when I was in the UK I found the French wine market very 'upper class' and you generally looked down your nose at the new world stuff, similarly when Cloudy Bay was the SB to be seen to drink, despite there being plenty of far superior ones, it does come across as a very snobby world...
Of if the marketing is good we sell our worst at premium prices....
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@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
As Cato says depends on what price you are prepared to pay in France in order to not get absolute crap. The worst French wines would be by some margin less drinkable than their kiwi equivalents.
in general Kiwi reds are more fruit driven but we also sell and drink them really young. Give them a bit of bottle age and they become more old world in character.
However like all generalisations their are also plenty of exceptions to the new world/fruity old world/earthy rule. We have some very "French" style Bordeaux blends as evidenced by them doing consistently well on the international stage and being mistaken for French wines in blind tastings.
Our Pinots are very fruit driven but even there the Martinborough ones are far more classical in style than those of Central Otago.
Finally vine age really benefits the French producers with most NZ plantings in the last 10-15 years
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I think there is also a huge difference in purpose. Many kiwi wines are made to be drunk alone, as a result they’re often (to me anyway) too sweet in comparison to old world wines. But, as has been mentioned, there are plenty of exceptions both ways.
As I’m coming home during new year, i just bought a case from Chard Farm (Gibbston Valley), with a plan to drink a few while I’m there, and will bring 8 or 9 back. For anyone who hasn’t been there, it’s a beautiful spot for wine tasting, and they go hardcore at making wine for food - much of it requires a bit of interaction as they are a bit ‘thin’ compared to others saround, but with a bit of time and the right dish, it’s amazing. The riesling is a great aperitif too.
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@dogmeat said in The new wine thread:
@hooroo said in The new wine thread:
My cousin recently moved back from living in France for nearly 30 years.
He can't beleive how 'bad' our reds are. Likens them to drinking a fruit cocktail.
He has found a few now that are more Euro like rather than 'New World'.
We have some very "French" style Bordeaux blends as evidenced by them doing consistently well on the international stage and being mistaken for French wines in blind tastings....
Finally vine age really benefits the French producers with most NZ plantings in the last 10-15 years
Yep, I tried some Gimblet Gravels Bordeaux blend a couple of years or so ago after reading about them in a blind tasting where they held up very well. I managed to source some in the UK and was quietly impressed. They had the finesse of a classed growth Claret, albeit one showing no real age. I've tried to get some more but they are not easily available and when they are the price is pretty steep.
And yep again. Vine age gives a great opportunity to add quality but not on its own. The vinification has to be good too. I have drunk a fair bit of "Vielles Vignes", that quite frankly are undrinkable.
And on the subject of undrinkable, at a recent wine tasting event I was given a glass of a Bordeaux blend from India. Filth.
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@catogrande It's a bit of a forgotten brand here but I still reckon that Church Rd reserve CS or CSM are a good example of a bourdeaux style red wine produced in NZ. I also have a bunch of aged Alluviale red wine from Gimblett Rd that I hope has not gone over the edge, now that Mrs CF and I don't drink a much as we used to (which wasn't that much)
Alluviale Hawke's Bay Merlot Cabernet Sauvignon 2015 - $39.95 p/btl!
$39.95 p/btl - Alluviale Hawke's Bay Merlot Cabernet Sauvignon 2015 from blackmarket.co.nz!
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@gt12 Wine and food pairings can make a huge difference. Some time ago I was invited to a wine and food pairing event run by Casilero del Diablo, the giant Chilean wine producer. All very nice and they went some way to trying to explain the complexity of pairing wine and food. The most stand to explanation was in regard to their Chardonnay. I'm not a fan of huge, fat, buttery chardonnay and sadly this was one of them. rink it on its own and it was like an alcoholic fruit juice. However try it after a mouthful of the paired food (Caesar Salad bites) and the difference was huge. The food softened the wine and opened spa far greater range of flavours. The wine expert was saying this is due to the egg within the Caesar dressing which affects a lot of the louder flavours in wine.
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@canefan Not heard of the Church Road brand. Do they export to the UK do you know?
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@catogrande I'd imagine they do. They won awards over 10 years ago then went quiet, I wonder if they don't fee the need to enter competitions anymore
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@canefan I've just tried them out on winesearcher and the Cab Say/Merlot Grand Reserve is only available in NZ
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@catogrande It's hard to know what you get there. Back in 1999 when I visited the UK for the first time they were selling White Cloud wine IIRC and it was a big deal. But no one drank that shit at home, a bit like aussies not drinking Fosters!!
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@canefan said in The new wine thread:
@catogrande It's hard to know what you get there. Back in 1999 when I visited the UK for the first time they were selling White Cloud wine IIRC and it was a big deal. But no one drank that shit at home, a bit like aussies not drinking Fosters!!
Probably because people thought they were drinking Cloudy Bay!
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Felton Rd wines are very nice
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The pinots are delicious and the riesling is underrated, usually has aromas of apricots, yummy
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Coleraine is regarded as one of NZ's best reds
http://www.raymondchanwinereviews.co.nz/blog/te-mata-coleraine-2015-1982
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@catogrande said in The new wine thread:
@canefan Not heard of the Church Road brand. Do they export to the UK do you know?
Very few NZ wineries sell under the same label in the U.K.
Often the brand name is registered by someone else, sometimes the name is unsuitable
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@crucial said in The new wine thread:
@catogrande said in The new wine thread:
@canefan Not heard of the Church Road brand. Do they export to the UK do you know?
Very few NZ wineries sell under the same label in the U.K.
Often the brand name is registered by someone else, sometimes the name is unsuitable
Are you an accountant? That post is informative but not actually any help.
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I’m a huge fan, but haven’t made it across to Cromwell for a few years. It’s maaaaaaaaad money here, so I never buy kiwi wine in Japan.
Planning to take the Mrs there next year, with lunch and a few bottles at Mt Difficulty too.
Last time I was home, I had an amazing Sauv Blanc from Peregrine - their Pinots are always pretty good, but I was super impressed with the white, and it was a reasonable price too - like $25 bucks or something and we’ll worth it.
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@catogrande said in The new wine thread:
@crucial said in The new wine thread:
@catogrande said in The new wine thread:
@canefan Not heard of the Church Road brand. Do they export to the UK do you know?
Very few NZ wineries sell under the same label in the U.K.
Often the brand name is registered by someone else, sometimes the name is unsuitable
Are you an accountant? That post is informative but not actually any help.
I'm an even better example than an accountant. I produce KPI reporting systems for IT delivery teams.
Baffle them with bullshit is the motto.
People want to pay for it, so who am I to question?
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@catogrande said in The new wine thread:
@canefan I've just tried them out on winesearcher and the Cab Say/Merlot Grand Reserve is only available in NZ
Church Roads top wines are produced under the "Tom" brand names after Tom MacDonald their iconic winemaker from 50's-70's. Quick check suggests you're not going to get them in UK either which highlights NZ wines major issue which is lack of scale.
Wines like Coleraine and LaRose are consistently judged as comparable to the top Bordeaux cru's by international reviewers - even Aussie critic's say Coleraine is better than Grange (which is bizarre as one is a Bordeaux blend the other mainly Shiraz) but they're difficult to get even here in NZ and are priced accordingly. Effectively you have to either know the right merchant or be on the vineyards mailing list and have bought previous vintages to have a chance of getting one. LaRose sells out en primeur but will reward you if you can get hold of a drop. The fact that someone like Robt Parker has scored them both in the mid 90's has made getting hold of any even harder.
Still I think that even at $200/bottle they are better quality than similarly priced French bordeaux
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I bought a Tom a few years ago and enjoyed it - very Saint Julien-ish even though i think it’s mainly merlot. But, at that money (and given what I can get Bordeaux Grand Crus for here) it’s still a pretty hard road to be cost competitive internationally. It fills a great space in NZ though, and I’d buy it again if I were home or looking for a special gift for my wine snob friends.
I haven’t been able to get my hands on the others, but as I can get almost anything for reasonable money (bar premier grand cru class) it’s hard to pull the trigger anyway. As an example, I can get a first rate Super Tuscan for the same (or less money) plus almost any second through fifth class Bordeaux (some of which don’t deserve the ranking anymore, but some of which are still unbelievably good).
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@canefan said in The new wine thread:
@gt12 They do a very nice lunch at Amisfield near Arrowtown too. So many choices
Amisfield is a great spot. Lovely Pinot Noir - not cheap but really good as is the food. I don't care for their Pinot Gris, too sweet for my liking. Looked at buying a property a few years ago from Tom Tusher who owns Amisfield. Nice guy. also owns Blanket Bay Lodge which is fantastic down near Glenorchy. Was ex CEO of Levi jeans bought up large station and has been selling off sections of it. Gave heaps back as national park as well I think as part of the deal.
Back on topic -A couple of Saffa reds worth a mention that I haven't had for a while but worth getting your hands on, Meerlust rubicon and I think it was a Springfield that I had with @Billy-Webb about a decade ago but still remember it because it was really good.
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@gt12 I'm a big fan of Te Mata wines. I enjoy their more Old World style and have never been disappointed. They just do what they do incredibly well and don't compromise on quality.
Having said that I've never gone for the bigger bottles simply because they work out more expensive due to the bottle cost. Having said that I just looked and Glengarry have the Magnum on special now so it works out cheaper than 2 x 750 ml https://www.glengarrywines.co.nz/brands/te mata
You can get it even cheaper through the vineyard website but the 750 is only $115 at Moore Wilson -
With thanks to @dogmeat ive got two bottles on their way. Looking forward to it!
Had a crazy dinner (b-day) last week where they put on a wine tasting with the main course (5 full glasses of Barolo Oddero from 5 vineyards across Barolo, including a 2009 Brunate, and a 2010 Bussia riserva). They are proper money over there (by the looks), but very elegant. Amazing wine with Kagoshima wild duck. Half that price here (or less), but if you are looking to go large for Xmas I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
2012 @ United Cellars
http://nz.unitedcellars.com/oddero-barolo-brunate-2012_2 -
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Yeah, it’s a bit sad, but the nature of the beast I guess. On the other hand, Premium NZ wines are more expensive than (some) of those bottles here in Japan, so it’s swings and roundabouts. I try to stick up on Chard farm when I’m home.
Wine really is a great hobby here, I priced all of those bottles today - all between ¥8000 and ¥14,000 - still more money than Europe, but pretty reasonable for what they are.
@Wally - that sounds awesome. I’ve been there three times (thanks work) but never during truffle season (fuck you work). We had one 2007 which was amazing.
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CHURCH ROAD - FORGING A PROUD HERITAGE
