Hesson gooooooone!
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@no-quarter said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@Siam sums it up well with: "unlike most coaches, he left the team in a far better state than he found it."
He did that and some.
He took on a team that had just beaten Australia away for what will be the only time in 30 years and was prepared to win away against a top tier Sri Lankan team on his first tour.
It wasn't an awful team by any means, the Wright tenure was very good and the appointment of Alan Donald as bowling coach under him (and subsequent departure due to NZC incompetence) was highly regarded.
But aside from that one series in RSA after McCullum took over he presided over a tenure of unprecedented stability in all forms - a massive achievement.
@chris-b said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@rotated Hesson solved Ryder - in the same way Henry and Hansen would have solved Ryder!
By picking him on the wing in the 2011 RWC suqad? Half the 22 in that tournament had off field incidents of some sort. I refuse to believe Ryder was more of a donkey than many of the legendary Aussies who managed to contribute significantly. Totally understandable that things have gone the way they have but if we are going to anoint someone as a great man-manager and culture setter the inability to solve that is worth a mention.
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@rotated said in Hesson gooooooone!:
By picking him on the wing in the 2011 RWC suqad? Half the 22 in that tournament had off field incidents of some sort. I refuse to believe Ryder was more of a donkey than many of the legendary Aussies who managed to contribute significantly. Totally understandable that things have gone the way they have but if we are going to anoint someone as a great man-manager and culture setter the inability to solve that is worth a mention.
to be fair to hesson, there are many coaches who have not been able to manage Ryder's issues well. Some people just do what they do, no matter the rational reasons not to shoot yourself in the foot, again.
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@rotated I think Hesson did solve it simply by saying we're going to have standards and if people can't abide by them then they won't be in the team. And Ryder and to a lesser extent Bracewell have paid prices for that attitude AND most importantly, the Black Caps have flourished without them.
Jesse probably could have played in Chappelli's era, because almost everyone was a pisshead and almost no-one was a true professional as we understand it today. Standards are now much higher.
David Gower's career got ended because he couldn't be bothered exercising when Gooch decided the team needed to get fit. I've got a biography of Gower by a guy called Rob Steen, which wails on for chapter after chapter about the injustice of David being dropped and what a c*nt Gooch was.
With the benefit of hindsight, pretty clearly Gooch was right and by today's standards Gower was lazy and unprofessional.
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@chris-b said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@rotated I think Hesson did solve it simply by saying we're going to have standards and if people can't abide by them then they won't be in the team. And Ryder and to a lesser extent Bracewell have paid prices for that attitude AND most importantly, the Black Caps have flourished without them.
Jesse probably could have played in Chappelli's era, because almost everyone was a pisshead and almost no-one was a true professional as we understand it today. Standards are now much higher.
David Gower's career got ended because he couldn't be bothered exercising when Gooch decided the team needed to get fit. I've got a biography of Gower by a guy called Rob Steen, which wails on for chapter after chapter about the injustice of David being dropped and what a c*nt Gooch was.
With the benefit of hindsight, pretty clearly Gooch was right and by today's standards Gower was lazy and unprofessional.
I always found it interesting that Gower had a test average higher than Gooch, Gatting and Lamb but those three all averaged heaps more in first class county cricket which Gower apparently couldn't be fucked with.
Fair to say Hesson did inherit quite a few brilliant players, I wonder how much of this was enhanced by his presence?
Too lazy to look it up but did Boult debut under him ? ( obviously the other main class players of the era didn't except maybe Wagner? )
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@nzzp said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@rotated said in Hesson gooooooone!:
By picking him on the wing in the 2011 RWC suqad? Half the 22 in that tournament had off field incidents of some sort. I refuse to believe Ryder was more of a donkey than many of the legendary Aussies who managed to contribute significantly. Totally understandable that things have gone the way they have but if we are going to anoint someone as a great man-manager and culture setter the inability to solve that is worth a mention.
to be fair to hesson, there are many coaches who have not been able to manage Ryder's issues well. Some people just do what they do, no matter the rational reasons not to shoot yourself in the foot, again.
Even the senior players couldn't keep Jesse on the straight and narrow. Peak Jesse would have been a valuable asset to the team. Unfortunately we didn't see enough of that
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Whoever replaces Hesson can hopefully sort out some of the utterly brainless play that we saw from the Blackcaps this past season. Eg. Multiple players getting out slogging when they are meant to be batting out an innings to save the game or not altering bowling plans when the ball is disappearing over the boundary regularly.
Is Vettori a chance?
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@pukunui I think the time away from home deters the likes of Flem and Dan
Flem gets a million per IPL as a salary, I think my mate said Dan gets 750k and Brad Hodge 250k.
Chuck in 2 or 3 other t20 gigs and what's the incentive for about 250k ( if that) to be away from home?
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@siam said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@pukunui I think the time away from home deters the likes of Flem and Dan
Flem gets a million per IPL as a salary, I think my mate said Dan gets 750k and Brad Hodge 250k.
Chuck in 2 or 3 other t20 gigs and what's the incentive for about 250k ( if that) to be away from home?
Wow, yeah that's a lot of cash for a lot less work.
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@mn5 said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@chris-b said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@rotated I think Hesson did solve it simply by saying we're going to have standards and if people can't abide by them then they won't be in the team. And Ryder and to a lesser extent Bracewell have paid prices for that attitude AND most importantly, the Black Caps have flourished without them.
Jesse probably could have played in Chappelli's era, because almost everyone was a pisshead and almost no-one was a true professional as we understand it today. Standards are now much higher.
David Gower's career got ended because he couldn't be bothered exercising when Gooch decided the team needed to get fit. I've got a biography of Gower by a guy called Rob Steen, which wails on for chapter after chapter about the injustice of David being dropped and what a c*nt Gooch was.
With the benefit of hindsight, pretty clearly Gooch was right and by today's standards Gower was lazy and unprofessional.
I always found it interesting that Gower had a test average higher than Gooch, Gatting and Lamb but those three all averaged heaps more in first class county cricket which Gower apparently couldn't be fucked with.
Fair to say Hesson did inherit quite a few brilliant players, I wonder how much of this was enhanced by his presence?
Too lazy to look it up but did Boult debut under him ? ( obviously the other main class players of the era didn't except maybe Wagner? )
Didn't Gower deliberately get out on a nice day so he could sunbathe?
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@rancid-schnitzel most probably not Ranc. But it might suit a laconic type narrative. I posit that no professional cricketer would rather sunbathe than bat. Those fluffybunnies live for batting
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Thinking about the next coach and the obvious delight that us " stakeholders" would get from Flem or Dan taking the helm and the team ( with Kane) to unimaginable heights.
I can't see a way without a monumental sacrifice by either of the two afore mentioned; or Bondy.
The "part-time" salaries they already receive totally dwarf the comparative pittance NZC can offer, the months spent overseas and at HQ, and mostly, I fear, the bullshit media obligations indicate that the job's a bit of a fluffybunny.
Could it be that the job requirements of the blackcaps coach only appeal to up and comers looking to make a name for themselves - a bit like wee Mike did really?
Can we attract a Gary Kirsten like, i.e. a proven record and longevity, or do we have to make do with another newbie?
Someone promoted internally? I don't know of the personnel. Shit not Kyle Mills !
Interesting times for NZC
Candidate list will be interesting
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@siam said in Hesson gooooooone!:
@rancid-schnitzel most probably not Ranc. But it might suit a laconic type narrative. I posit that no professional cricketer would rather sunbathe than bat
Ever had a winter in Northern Europe?
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@siam said in Hesson gooooooone!:
Thinking about the next coach and the obvious delight that us " stakeholders" would get from Flem or Dan taking the helm and the team ( with Kane) to unimaginable heights.
I can't see a way without a monumental sacrifice by either of the two afore mentioned; or Bondy.
I'm not sure I'd be that keen on Dan yet. There's still people in the team that he played with. Plus he's had a term as NZ coach, while he was captain, sole bowler, main batsman and bus driver.
Following the AB prescription - maybe we should promote Craig McMillan?
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@chris-b oh dear, yes I'd forgotten about McMillan (shudder). Good points about Dan too, yeah na.
Could this be the first new coach appointment not compelled by a crisis ever in NZ cricket history?
Are there provincial coaches likely to be in the mix? I don't know much about them
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Hmm. My archetypal Macca moment was in that test when Astle went nuts at the end with his 222.
Sure it was a big total to get but if we just batted to not get out we'd get there at 2 an over.
Macca of course goes on the attack and tries to hit back over the bowler ...
Dunno why but that's always stuck in my craw.
That and dancing to leg to McGrath in the last over of that match where Flem nearly manufactured a win, instead of standing and hitting.
Hopefully those sort of things become the mistakes you learn from and make you an experienced coach.
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@booboo another scar was at Lords I think, 1st ball tries to smash/sweep Giles. Misses it hugely. Everybody WTF?
Does worse 2nd ball and misses again. Yup 3rd ball is bowled doing the same and 3 for fuck all turns immediately to 4 for fuck all.....sigh
Hopefully those sort of things become the mistakes you learn from and make you an experienced coach.☺
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Of the provincial coaches I would put forward Bruce Edgar.
He has 'moved down' from NZ selector to Wellington coach as I think he wanted to get more hands on. This after he left his 30 odd years in banking in Sydney. Seems like a guy who actually has the hunger after quitting playing early at 29 to pursue said business career.
If you'd asked me 6 months ago I'd say Edgar was a sitter for it as Wellington started with a hiss and a roar in all 3 comps, but they faded.
I don't think international cricket requires a superstar coach. Hesson, Trist and Aberhart have proved this.
I think the team needs an honest self-improving culture and someone who can keep that culture on the straight while senior players take on bigger leadership and strategy roles than other sports.
