Saffas going?



  • Is this just posturing or a real thing? Much of the argument makes sense. Where does it leave us going forward?







  • @Tim Daily Mail 🙄 I find it hard to believe ...



  • Has been talked about for years, now with the 2 SA teams playing in Europe it has given them a bit of an indicator as to how it might work.

    Still be surprised if it happens, more so them being allowed in rather than them not wanting to join.

    Would detract from the travelling fans they get currently.



  • If SA did wander off to play within their timezone, NZ would be stuck propping up Australian rugby hoping like hell they had another golden period...



  • @taniwharugby One very important factor that the article doesn't mention is the travel factor for the European teams. It's clear that the travel factor would be more attractive to SA, but - assuming South Africa would play at least three "7/6 Nations" tests at home - three European teams would have to travel much further than they're used to in the current 6 Nations format. That won't be popular; not among the players, and also not among their fans. Quite a lot (relatively speaking) of fans follow their national teams to 6N away games; that will be near impossible if they play in South Africa.

    Also, a move to 6 Nations would also imply the end of South Africa's participation in Super Rugby, unless they play their SR games with depleted teams, because even after next year's SR format change, the 6 Nations and SR will overlap.

    Will South Africa be able to employ all their best pro players in teams that participate in Pro 14, which presumably has to expand? Or Premiership? Which, again, has huge implications for travel, both of SA teams and the other teams in those competitions.



  • I guess if they did try to do this we’ll see whether WR truly have the game at heart. There’s no way they would let this happen if they wanted to retain two strong ‘hemispheres’ of rugby.



  • @Nepia more like it'd be NZR dictating to WR



  • @Nepia said in Saffas going?:

    I guess if they did try to do this we’ll see whether WR truly have the game at heart. There’s no way they would let this happen if they wanted to retain two strong ‘hemispheres’ of rugby.

    Their wet dream would be the All Blacks being put back in their place.



  • They can bugger off as far as I am concerned and take their super rugby teams back with ..first phone call would be to Andrew Twiggy Forrest ..Nau Mai Haere Mai e hoa..!, Nau Mai Haere Mai ki te Western Force..Gee we missed you old friend...!

    Would be bloody exciting to have a Pacific Nations Championship..which included Japan,Fiji,Tonga ,Samoa and Argentina ..and Super rugby teams from that are currently in NZ and Australia plus Western Force and our old friends the Sunwolves ,Jaguaries, and maybe one from Fiji and an America’s team out of Hawaii ..would love to see a draft system ,and a loan system operated ...



  • @Steven-Harris said in Saffas going?:

    They can bugger off as far as I am concerned and take their super rugby teams back with ..first phone call would be to Andrew Twiggy Forrest

    Invite the fox into the hen house...



  • @antipodean most foxes just pilfere, this Fox has some serious cash..!



  • Sooooo much water to go under the bridge before this happens. But also, you show me a South African supporter who doesn't see the All Blacks as their biggest rival. Even in winning the RWC they acknowledged their litmus test would be against us H&A this year.

    For me, I think we need to piss off the SA super teams and Argentina (sadly) - we should focus on a Super Pacific Rugby something-a-rather. If AFL & NRL can survive, we can get this going.

    I also think we should go to the broadcasters, and just get a Pacific 8 nations going. The four we got + Japan, Fiji, Tonga & Samoa. Two pools, top 2 in each play semis & finals. And boomski. We can still add on a test vs SA & one vs Australia too.



  • @Steven-Harris not anywhere near serious enough too cover the broadcasting loss that SA leaving would. A Pacific Nations cup is already there, and the money is not. If that harkens ABs will be going north in droves, there's no money here for it.



  • @Steven-Harris said in Saffas going?:

    @antipodean most foxes just pilfere, this Fox has some serious cash..!

    Didn't do anything to help the Western Force...

    Twiggy runs a very good PR line. Benefits of philanthropy include tax deductions, PR from your own foundation etc.



  • Stuff playing the Pacific Islands, Japan, Argentina and whatever is left of Australia every year.

    If the Saffas leave I can't see it being good for NZ.



  • If they left, I would hope we would still arrange for one test a year or regular test series.



  • @Stargazer its a 12 hour flight from Heathrow to Cape Town.



  • @mikedogz An All Black / Springbok tour will be awesome. S15 is dead for years now.



  • The best way to remove NZ as a world power is to make them a non-entity.

    Argentina is competitive but the other nations are anything but. Australia is about to be booted by Foxtel and it doesn't take a genius to figure out someone at Fox probably heard about the SA defection. The game here is effectively dead at grassroots and I can not see things getting any better.

    We would be better off leaving the Super format and returning to a strengthened NPC. But retaining players would be bloody hard without the TV money the Saffas were bringing in.

    I would imagine Test rugby as we know it for NZ would be over, post 2023. We would be playing a shitty post Super tourny against Argentina, Aussie and maybe Japan.





  • I expect if this happened, we would finally have no choice but to select players from overseas, although we'd probably just have to pick up those not snaffled up by the Euro teams.



  • I don't know if this is such a big deal.

    1. Just last week the Fijians were going as well.
    2. Surely the Home nations have the right to veto this. The Six Nations has a fair bit of history, suddenly it'll be seven or eight nations. They'll be sacrificing a lot of what makes it special.
    3. There is no reason NZ, Japan & Australia couldn't get their act together and build a better rugby product, and sharper, faster teams - Japan's knocking at the door of the top tier (arguably there now) all the while not playing top teams regularly.


  • I'm not sure this move would make their rugby any better. How many players come back from the NH better? It will see them entrench their tight brand of rugby, playing up there doesn't encourage expansive play. They would be rich though



  • @canefan said in Saffas going?:

    I'm not sure this move would make their rugby any better. How many players come back from the NH better? It will see them entrench their tight brand of rugby, playing up there doesn't encourage expansive play. They would be rich though

    We can then charge more when they want us to tour. Want to play the best, test our legacy, then pay up.



  • @westcoastie said in Saffas going?:

    @canefan said in Saffas going?:

    I'm not sure this move would make their rugby any better. How many players come back from the NH better? It will see them entrench their tight brand of rugby, playing up there doesn't encourage expansive play. They would be rich though

    We can then charge more when they want us to tour. Want to play the best, test our legacy, then pay up.

    Do we get a share of the gate on the NH tours?



  • That will be the the death of rugby in NZ.



  • @canefan said in Saffas going?:

    @westcoastie said in Saffas going?:

    @canefan said in Saffas going?:

    I'm not sure this move would make their rugby any better. How many players come back from the NH better? It will see them entrench their tight brand of rugby, playing up there doesn't encourage expansive play. They would be rich though

    We can then charge more when they want us to tour. Want to play the best, test our legacy, then pay up.

    Do we get a share of the gate on the NH tours?

    For those extra games we do, but the whole landscape is going to change ain't it?
    Want to play us? Pay up.
    Can just use the line "well you haven't beaten us yet have ya" "its all well and good winning a NH tourney but play us down here"

    We need to lock in the next AIG for 10+ years though and at top dollar



  • @westcoastie AIG have already gone, you're dreaming. If SA join 6N, either becoming 7N or replaceing Italy, it is the end of ABs as top dog. It'll take maybe half a dozen years, but we'll end up like Oz but worse - the RC money is split between the nations and SA money and ABs brand bringing in money has propped up Ozzie rugby barely for the last 12 years or so. Our money will go, tests/games in SA bring heapso cash due to them being in Euro time zone, then the players. We'll maybe pick overseas, home games will then be worth even less cos most ABs will be in NH cashed up clubs, ever decreasing circle. But is it a big IF.



  • @Machpants said in Saffas going?:

    @westcoastie AIG have already gone, you're dreaming. If SA join 6N, either becoming 7N or replaceing Italy, it is the end of ABs as top dog. It'll take maybe half a dozen years, but we'll end up like Oz but worse - the RC money is split between the nations and SA money and ABs brand bringing in money has propped up Ozzie rugby barely for the last 12 years or so. Our money will go, tests/games in SA bring heapso cash due to them being in Euro time zone, then the players. We'll maybe pick overseas, home games will then be worth even less cos most ABs will be in NH cashed up clubs, ever decreasing circle. But is it a big IF.

    the next AIG... but yeh I think we'll be right, just be a different landscape, maybe a better one, where we can look after our players wellbeing and workload better. We'll all just chucking out opinion. We'll be fine I think.



  • It will be about the money. We need a lot as it is getting harder to fend off the big money from the NH and Japan



  • @canefan said in Saffas going?:

    I'm not sure this move would make their rugby any better. How many players come back from the NH better?

    Currently, most of them. Look at the standouts in the AUS and SA teams in teh RWC; a lot of them are coming out of the NH comps. They went away and got better. We have to do the same.

    That said, SA always does this, and so far no joy. I'm not sure the 6/7N will compromise their travel for a few SA dollars. The big money is in England and France, and potentially Japan. SA is a medium earner in the scheme of things.

    If they do go, it'll be curtains for us though. We just wno't compete with the big boys up north with the deep pockets if we can't get Japan up and running as a superpower.



  • @Tim premium reeee



  • @westcoastie said in Saffas going?:

    There is no reason NZ, Japan & Australia couldn't get their act together and build a better rugby product, and sharper, faster teams - Japan's knocking at the door of the top tier (arguably there now) all the while not playing top teams regularly.

    I think that last is the reason NZ is investing in Japan so heavily - it's got the moolah.



  • @Machpants if you believe the article, Italy won't be leaving, meaning they would then have a bye week (That they have had before) or need an 8th team.



  • @taniwharugby said in Saffas going?:

    @Machpants if you believe the article, Italy won't be leaving, meaning they would then have a bye week (That they have had before) or need an 8th team.

    Certainly the clubs won't buy into having the 6N encroach further into the season?



  • The poor size of the crowd for a game as big as Chiefs v Crusaders is a sign of how far Super Rugby is starting to circle the drain. I suppose why would you pay for a game where the best players are time limited - death by a thousand dumbs by the NZRU and SANZAR over the years.

    SA would probably be better off in the 6N, it’s just whether the home nations will want two long haul flights added to their schedule.



  • @Donsteppa at the end of the day, will SA bring the extra £'s and €'s that will ultimately be the determining factor to keep the Euro clubs in check...as a partner in SANZAR thier population helps them be the main player, in the big Euro markets, will it have the same pull?



  • @taniwharugby initially they will. The novelty factor will be enormous. Just how long that can be sustained is the thing.

    I’d imagine the many street gangs in Cape Town will be over the moon...


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