Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So, the flu basically.
The highly contagious version of the flu, which is a nasty disease. It's not quite 'just the flu'
Yet it does invite the question: Is the Ministry of Health considering making flu jabs quasi-mandatory?
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So, the flu basically.
The highly contagious version of the flu, which is a nasty disease. It's not quite 'just the flu'
Yet it does invite the question: Is the Ministry of Health considering making flu jabs quasi-mandatory?
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination. -
the point isn't "is omicron mild?" it's "is omicron mild in a vaccinated person?" and the overwhelming evidence is, yes.
So, with a very high vaccination level, do the various restrictions actually provide more "protection" than the varying levels of impact they have on other aspects of life?
People aren't saying "oh this is like the flu, lets just get on with it" people are saying "of this is like the flu, and damn near everyone has had a vaccination for it, lets get in with it"
The difference in the two arguments is massive, and to ignore that difference is almost dishonest
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the point isn't "is omicron mild?" it's "is omicron mild in a vaccinated person?" and the overwhelming evidence is, yes.
So, with a very high vaccination level, do the various restrictions actually provide more "protection" than the varying levels of impact they have on other aspects of life?
People aren't saying "oh this is like the flu, lets just get on with it" people are saying "of this is like the flu, and damn near everyone has had a vaccination for it, lets get in with it"
The difference in the two arguments is massive, and to ignore that difference is almost dishonest
Did you read that article. What you have explained is completely correct and known but it is half of the picture.
NB:also the stats show that your position is possibly the one to follow once booster rates are high. We aren't there yet.
I agree that once 3rd doses are up the position needs re-visiting. -
i did. i read it when it came out over 2 weeks ago. i read a few more too.
Just keep on supporting that government position no matter what is stuck in front of you. At least you've been consistent.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
your position is possibly the one to follow once booster rates are high. We aren't there yet.
havent we been down this road before?
Wait until we hit 90% of eligible vaccinated...
will we be looking at a 4th jab for winter?
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The argument about kids is misleading too - it's true that Omicron settles higher, leading to more Croup, but the overwhelming factor is that there are just a huge number of cases. This is a good article that highlights the danger, then eventually points out that actually it is the denominator effect.
Thus far, there are no signs that the cases caused by Omicron are more severe.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I agree that once 3rd doses are up the position needs re-visiting.
Yeah...keep pushing it out.
After all, as you said, you work in the public service, what do you care?What about when those boosters wear off and Omicron makes a minor resurgence?
Shall we have more restrictions to "reflect, assess, study contemplate, meditate, delay........."?So sick of academic types with no common sense.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
i did. i read it when it came out over 2 weeks ago. i read a few more too.
Just keep on supporting that government position no matter what is stuck in front of you. At least you've been consistent.
I have actually been all over the shop on this question and the current position.
What has been consistent is posters that dislike this govt simply because they dislike the left will attack everything they do.
At least I try to understand why they do what they do and have made plenty of criticisms of their actions on here. -
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I agree that once 3rd doses are up the position needs re-visiting.
Yeah...keep pushing it out.
After all, as you said, you work in the public service, what do you care?What about when those boosters wear off and Omicron makes a minor resurgence?
Shall we have more restrictions to "reflect, assess, study contemplate, meditate, delay........."?So sick of academic types with no common sense.
Don't confuse academics with facts. The efficacy of vaccines wears off. Fact.
Where has the govt said that restrictions are for "reflect, assess, study contemplate, meditate, delay........."?
They have stated their reasons (not very clearly IMO) and it is still about protecting people as a whole (children, elderly, unvaccinated, undervaccinated etc)Form an argument about that rather than making shit up.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Anyone suggesting 3 jabs should be the new requirement to be considered vaccinated can fuck right off
Funny how the consensus opinion on here regarding anti-vaxxers pre-covid was all 'listen to the science you morons'.
Now it's "I'm an expert, leave me alone"
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Anyone suggesting 3 jabs should be the new requirement to be considered vaccinated can fuck right off
Funny how the consensus opinion on here regarding anti-vaxxers pre-covid was all 'listen to the science you morons'.
Now it's "I'm an expert, leave me alone"
You really do talk some shit don't you?
Where have I said I'm an expert, leave me alone? What I'm saying is that the population is hugely vaccinated now to a level that anyone unvaxxed, and especially double vaxxed, is such a negligible risk to anyone who is triple vaxxed, that it's a joke to force restrictions on them.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Anyone suggesting 3 jabs should be the new requirement to be considered vaccinated can fuck right off
Funny how the consensus opinion on here regarding anti-vaxxers pre-covid was all 'listen to the science you morons'.
Now it's "I'm an expert, leave me alone"
are you this dim in real life or is it just the way it comes across here?
That comment was clearly aimed at vaccination mandates. Absolutely zero to do with science. And completely consistent with his earlier views on compulsory vaccinations
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@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial haha i disagree with this very strongly. I and a few others have been pushing the most "antivax" agenda on here and i dont feel like its been that well supported at all
Finally something we can agree on 😉. Definitely call BS on that. The prevailing opinion has been overwhelmingly pro vaxx. What we have now is growing dissatisfaction with continued mismanagement of the probable end game for covid19 by the government. Clearly since late 2020 they haven't subscribed to the 5 Ps
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Apologies for the twisted knickers. I read @machpants post in a totally different light.
'fully vaccinated' against omicron is three jabs based on the science.
I never mentioned mandates and nor did he.
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actually in Australia the term "fully vaccinated" is out the window
it's now about your vaccination status being "up to date"
I believe this is in relation to the imminent phasing out of vaccine mandates, and also maybe as a nod to the fact that having 3 jabs doesn't stop you catching it, so the term is actually misleading (though i cannot prove either of these reasons)
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
actually in Australia the term "fully vaccinated" is out the window
it's now about your vaccination status being "up to date"
I believe this is in relation to the imminent phasing out of vaccine mandates, and also maybe as a nod to the fact that having 3 jabs doesn't stop you catching it, so the term is actually misleading (though i cannot prove either of these reasons)
It could also be that they want to discourage getting the 3rd jab for a while after you've had Omicron.
My booster just got cancelled because they want me to wait another 3 months now (apparently my chances of catching it again with double shot are really fucking low)
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Doesn't the statement you quoted answer that question?
No. Not really
Impact similar for those that catch it, but rate of catching it much higher.
It's the combination of the two that is the argument for restrictions and vaccination.It's also an argument for relaxing restrictions in the Summer/Autumn months to safely build up societal immunity to Winter flu - otherwise that will kill far more people than is usual.
Just surprised NZ doesn't seem to be learning from other countries on this.