Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby)
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Look. I love rugby. But it would be so awesome if I never again had to read a court article where some dude committed a crime then got discharged without conviction because in future he might want to play overseas. Really really sick of these things that are 100% perpetrator-focused rather than victim focused. These poor women.
"Sexual convictions carried stigma that would hinder him pursuing his dreams of becoming a gunner in the army and travelling overseas to play rugby, she said."
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@Mokey said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
Look. I love rugby. But it would be so awesome if I never again had to read a court article where some dude committed a crime then got discharged without conviction because in future he might want to play overseas. Really really sick of these things that are 100% perpetrator-focused rather than victim focused. These poor women.
"Sexual convictions carried stigma that would hinder him pursuing his dreams of becoming a gunner in the army and travelling overseas to play rugby, she said."
That’s really shit, just because your good at something that can take you overseas doesn’t mean you don’t suffer consequences. That’s why they are called consequences.
Sends a really shit message to possible victims too -
@Virgil agreed absolutely shit, what the actual f*ck! I hate reading articles like this, such a let down.
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@Mokey said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
Look. I love rugby. But it would be so awesome if I never again had to read a court article where some dude committed a crime then got discharged without conviction because in future he might want to play overseas. Really really sick of these things that are 100% perpetrator-focused rather than victim focused. These poor women.
"Sexual convictions carried stigma that would hinder him pursuing his dreams of becoming a gunner in the army and travelling overseas to play rugby, she said."
‘Sexual convictions carry stigma‘.....and so they fucken should. Convict him, make him do the time and if he rehabilitates then all well and good.....but yes this sends an absolutely appalling ‘brush it under the carpet’ message.
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the victim statements were pretty harrowing, yet seemingly ignored by the Judge. Why would she do this.
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I'm going to say something that might get me absolutely flamed but...
i think, in this instance, it was perhaps more important to the judiciary to not send him back to the gangs. Perhaps it was viewed that a conviction takes his path right back to them, while in this instance, they may have saved him.
I'm not sure I'm 100% okay with that. But i am cool with almost any measure that pushes people away from teh gang lifestyle
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How, exactly, does prospecting for a gang equate to having ambition to join the defence force? If he's that easily persuaded to commit crimes, he's a liability.
Amazing how divorced from community expectations the judiciary can be. Especially those that are bleeding hearts.
'These factors meant Williams presented no risk to the community, the judge said.' Apart from the offences he's committed, sure there's no risk...
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@mariner4life said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
I'm going to say something that might get me absolutely flamed but...
i think, in this instance, it was perhaps more important to the judiciary to not send him back to the gangs. Perhaps it was viewed that a conviction takes his path right back to them, while in this instance, they may have saved him.
I'm not sure I'm 100% okay with that. But i am cool with almost any measure that pushes people away from teh gang lifestyle
You’re certainly not saying anything that doesn’t make perfect sense but I guess that’s the decision the judge has to make and be prepared to be crucified ( rightfully so ) by the victims families etc.
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Absolutely! Under the bus with the prick. Guaranteed in a couple years he will have forgotten all about this while the victims will still be struggling to get on with their lives.
Seriously what has he learned from this?
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@mariner4life said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
I'm going to say something that might get me absolutely flamed but...
i think, in this instance, it was perhaps more important to the judiciary to not send him back to the gangs. Perhaps it was viewed that a conviction takes his path right back to them, while in this instance, they may have saved him.
I'm not sure I'm 100% okay with that. But i am cool with almost any measure that pushes people away from teh gang lifestyle
If they have let him off because he has ambitions to join the army, they should take him from the courthouse straight down to enlist. And make sure he sees it through
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@mariner4life said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
i think, in this instance, it was perhaps more important to the judiciary to not send him back to the gangs. Perhaps it was viewed that a conviction takes his path right back to them, while in this instance, they may have saved him.
I remember reading in Wilie Apiata's biography, the day he hitch-hiked from the East Coast to join the army, said he got picked up by some gang members and was sandwiched in the back of a car with these 2 big gang members, and he told them he was joining the army, and they just said 'Choice'
He also said if he didnt join the army, he'd likely have ended up in a gang...
So yea, can see where they are coming from, but by the same token, stalking and then assaulting is quite serious
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George Moala shoulda been locked up. The least he coulda done was become the next Nonu after his literal ‘get out of jail free’ card.
There was also that Winger from Wellington whose name escapes me who assaulted a bunch of people really badly.
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@taniwharugby said
stalking and then assaulting is quite serious
Not serious enough for a gang initiation though....
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@JC said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
Absolutely! Under the bus with the prick. Guaranteed in a couple years he will have forgotten all about this while the victims will still be struggling to get on with their lives.
Seriously what has he learned from this?
See, that's a key point. I know some might look at this story and think oh, it was just grabbing and rubbing, not worse. But they were jogging, so brain now associates that with trauma. They were outside, broad daylight, living life, and suddenly some fuckstick grabs them from behind. So you have shock, inability to process. Unwanted contact. Now brain is all 'holy fuck, didn't like that at all, so now to be helpful, we are going to be hyper aware in every single situation. Cos probably everyone wants to grab you. Outside is not safe. Exercise is not safe.' The other massive thing is that touch suddenly becomes associated with trauma also. Anytime someone hugs them = flashback. Far, far worse if anyone (innocently and unknowingly) approaches from behind them for a snuggle. Body will instantly be all DANGER DANGER ATTACK. *
Stuff like this can affect relationships, sleep, work, sex etc. And there were three victims here. So for that judge to be all well you might want to play rugby overseas so toddle on son is a giant fucking insult to victims.
- Speaking from personal experience here, dude grabbed me in broad daylight, public street and tried to drag me down an alley. That was 20 years ago, but I still remember.
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@Mokey said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@JC said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
Absolutely! Under the bus with the prick. Guaranteed in a couple years he will have forgotten all about this while the victims will still be struggling to get on with their lives.
Seriously what has he learned from this?
See, that's a key point. I know some might look at this story and think oh, it was just grabbing and rubbing, not worse. But they were jogging, so brain now associates that with trauma.
Yep, so he gets a helping hand with his life and these women get... what? Some ACC for a couple of therapy sessions then left to it? Not good enough. And they know he's still out there!
- Speaking from personal experience here, dude grabbed me in broad daylight, public street and tried to drag me down an alley. That was 20 years ago, but I still remember.
I assume he's dead
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@Mokey said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
- Speaking from personal experience here, dude grabbed me in broad daylight, public street and tried to drag me down an alley. That was 20 years ago, but I still remember.
shit that horrible, something that often take me a minute to remember....20 years ago was still 2000...a time a lot might consider pretty safe, scary, i'm hoping by the use of "tried" you managed to get away
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@Kiwiwomble He got whacked in the head, then I ran. But it was one of those things that does not compute. Like it's lunchtime. I'm wearing jeans and t-shirt, walking home in public area, decent part of town (before anyone says what did you do to invite that.) Same as these women. Now that trust of an environment/activity is broken.
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@Mokey if this was in Hamilton i was totally away that weekend
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on a more serious note, i can not understand how fucked in the head you have to be to do that.
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@mariner4life Hahaha nope, was overseas.
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@Mokey said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@mariner4life Hahaha nope, was overseas.
in that case i was definitely in Hamilton
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first time anyone was proud/happy to be in hamilton
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@mariner4life said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@Mokey said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@mariner4life Hahaha nope, was overseas.
in that case i was definitely in Hamilton
Why would anyone want to admit being in Hamilton
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@Mokey said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@Kiwiwomble He got whacked in the head, then I ran. But it was one of those things that does not compute. Like it's lunchtime. I'm wearing jeans and t-shirt, walking home in public area, decent part of town (before anyone says what did you do to invite that.) Same as these women. Now that trust of an environment/activity is broken.
A woman can be walking down the street in nothing at all, still doesn’t mean any guy can just grab her and drag her off to harm her.
Woman should feel safe and not have to worry about the @mariner4life‘s of this world. -
@Virgil thats one of the saddest points...that that has to be said
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@Kiwiwomble said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@Virgil thats one of the saddest points...that that has to be said
does it really? The ones who would never do it already know it. Those that will won't care what you say
There's no middle ground "swing" deciders out there
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@mariner4life said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@Kiwiwomble said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@Virgil thats one of the saddest points...that that has to be said
does it really? The ones who would never do it already know it. Those that will won't care what you say
There's no middle ground "swing" deciders out there
Yep it’s like the consequence/empathy/humanity/decency part of their brain is missing.
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@mariner4life said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@Kiwiwomble said in Don't want a criminal conviction, don't commit crimes (except if you play rugby):
@Virgil thats one of the saddest points...that that has to be said
does it really? The ones who would never do it already know it. Those that will won't care what you say
There's no middle ground "swing" deciders out there
As Bill Burr put it:
