The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread
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@akan004 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones I think there's a lot of truth in what you said. I also think that he underestimated the Aussies after the big Sydney win as well as the disruption the changes were going to make to our combinations. The shortened calendar also possibly played a part in influencing the amount of changes.
But it's easy to say this in hindsight. Pre game, most of us on here were excited by the changes (apart from TJ) and supported it. If TJ wasn't so bad and SB wasn't a thick cu nt, we most likely would have won it. Foster has to take a lot of the blame for not bringing on the bench earlier though, that's on him.
Yes most were not complaining about the changes before the game but was a little strange for him to take that chance. I was convinced that because of his contract he was going to go the most conservative route possible. I think he did first 3 games, would have thought would have thought he would for the fourth game too.
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@DMX said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@akan004 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones I think there's a lot of truth in what you said. I also think that he underestimated the Aussies after the big Sydney win as well as the disruption the changes were going to make to our combinations. The shortened calendar also possibly played a part in influencing the amount of changes.
But it's easy to say this in hindsight. Pre game, most of us on here were excited by the changes (apart from TJ) and supported it. If TJ wasn't so bad and SB wasn't a thick cu nt, we most likely would have won it. Foster has to take a lot of the blame for not bringing on the bench earlier though, that's on him.
Yes most were not complaining about the changes before the game but was a little strange for him to take that chance. I was convinced that because of his contract he was going to go the most conservative route possible. I think he did first 3 games, would have thought would have thought he would for the fourth game too.
Change was good, but that was too much change as it turned out
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I remember watching an interview before the game and he mentioned giving players some time off after the previous win ,
Time off , whole sale changes , Does sound like its possible a touch of complacency may have crept in
if they had lost that previous game you would assume no time off, only changes would be ones to make the side better , and training the house down no doubt .
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As Foster said himself:
“But we just felt that this tour was about giving people opportunities, and so I've got no regrets. “But we certainly looked a bit clunky in our collective decision making but I think we'll be better for that, when they have a bit more time under the belt.”He also said:
“I've got to take some of this on the chin, because I put some new combinations out on the park".I'm sure he expected those SR combinations to be better than they were, as I did.
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@Machpants how many years did they play together before this season?
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@Kiwiwomble said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Machpants how many years did they play together before this season?
Doesn't matter. They've both played together for years, things change in that time. You're talking a lot of rust in the combination. After a good few games they'd probably click. But you can't just walk back into that
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@akan004 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@nostrildamus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@akan004 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
won a dead rubber against a fairly experimental lineup
um did you see how experimental the Wallaby side was?
Team #6 v Team #2Did they have 13 changes? Besides, the Wallaby changes were made to improve the team, ours was to build depth.
-Um Wallabies made changes because their playmakers were no longer available. I think they had 9 changes for Bled IV (https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/11/06/breaking-down-all-of-the-wallabies-changes-for-bledisloe-4/) but they were real newbies not experienced ex-starters or using players who were in earlier tests like the ABs.Can you really look at rankings once that many changes have been made? It's amazing how you just glossed over the two defeats, one being the biggest ever between the two countries.
-Then you are easily amazed.
-The ABs played well 2 out of 4 games, were lucky to draw the first.
They have two+10s. The Wallabies don't have that luxury. They simply don't have the depth at most positions that the ABs have.
16:16
27:7
43:5
22:24
The ABs had one killer game.
Foster joined the coaching team in 2012. He became head coach nearly a year ago, Dec 2020.
Rennie was announced Nov 2019 but to a foreign country with all their quaint customs (punching sharks, nasal greetings, calling Japanese sandals thongs).
Plus Australian rugby is going through a disasterous period. -
@nostrildamus It's clear that you are a Rennie apologist. You refuse to acknowledge the ABs in Brisbane were a totally different side to the first 3, a side lacking combinations etc.
The truth is in the 2 games that Rennie had to win he failed badly.
Also, this isn't a great AB side, you wouldn't expect a team that is 6th in the world and with reasonable talent to lose by 38 points to this team at home in a must win game.
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@akan004 reasonable talent is a stretch? We started a 20 year old at 10 in Sydney with another debutant on his outside.
Let's be realistic. He has a side with the potential to be reasonably talented.
Realistically he had three established players with talent available for selection in the backline at the start of the int season (Koroibete, Toomua and JOC). You could arguably add White to that list, but I've never rated him. Even old man Genia is better IMO (he also should have had TK available - but he's gone all in on Petaia and Paisami).
In Sydney he had one of those left.
Foster and Rennie are both at pass marks IMO. The results are par for the course and reflect 2 v 6. At best you could argue a draw and a win is better than a pass.
I don't really buy the argument that ABs played their B team in the fourth game and so it doesn't count as much. A) most of the changes many on here advocated as being the better option and on paper it looked like an excellent team (TJ the flog aside) B ) Wallabies also made a load of changes and effectively played without a 10. That was a good result.
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@Derpus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
A) most of the changes many on here advocated as being the better option
Nobody thought this before the game. Reiko at wing yes and Akira over Frizell for a few of us, but most of the other changes weren't better. Reece, TJP, Taylor, BB at 10 and Laumpae are such inferior players to the guys they replaced, not to mention a very inexperienced bench. Also the lack of combinations brought about by so many changes was apparent.
I agree that both coaches get a pass mark and I am not saying that Foster has been good, I don't think he should be the AB coach tbh, was simply saying that Rennie hasn't been good either, just adequate.
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@Derpus pretty much agree with all of this.
That team on the weekend should have won, especially given who they were up against. There were established combinations all over the park, first choice players everywhere, there are no real excuses. Cards are a mitigation, but not an excuse.
I'm giving Foster a pass because, as i have said elsewhere, international sides are team unto themselves these days. I am willing to bet the mentality was "see who can dig themselves out of this hole", rather than "shit, change shit up, win at all costs!". Please note i am not suggesting winning wasn't the consideration, just a different approach was taken to achieving that.
I am reserving judgement on Foster until the end of 2021, when it is absolutely his team playing his way.
Rennie will be both disappointed and satisfied i think. He blooded a lot of young guys, and got 2 credible results, and did so playing patches of excellent rugby. He'll be disappointed in the first quarter in Sydney where his team handed the game over, and the Auckland result. Finish the season well against Argentina and he'll head in to summer very satisfied i would have thought.
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@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
That team on the weekend should have won, especially given who they were up against. There were established combinations all over the park, first choice players everywhere, there are no real excuses. Cards are a mitigation, but not an excuse.
I think the Barrett card was crucial and it did change the momentum. That changed how they were going to use the bench as well. Ofa's send off was also significant, it meant that we lost Akira as well as our first choice tighthead and it exposed Lomax as possibly not being up to this level just yet.
As much as many of us thought the changes wouldn't disrupt the combinations too much, they clearly did and TJP was even worse than many of us thought he would be which didn't help matters.
All things considered and with what transpired with the cards, a win there wasn't a given.
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@akan004 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
All things considered and with what transpired with the cards, a win there wasn't a given.
THis is a good point. If we don't cop the initial red card, does Foster's team get up and win? I say yes - the control leading up to Rieko's try was superb. After the card our heads exploded, and we seemed to panic.
Aus still won fair and square, but tough to judge the coach for Ofa's effort
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@nzzp and that is what worried me, card and everything falls apart? id expect better
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@nzzp said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
After the card our heads exploded, and we seemed to panic.
we get told they train for being a man down, yet Perth last year and this game, would seem they dont.
This is where you have to quesiton the leadership, last year more so with Read being more experienced.
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@taniwharugby yeah, leadership is a worry, TJP has 66 caps, BB 87 and Cane 70...i know they were all captain before but you would think those many caps in the decision making positions would result in some more leadership and a switch in game plan
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@taniwharugby said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@nzzp said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
After the card our heads exploded, and we seemed to panic.
we get told they train for being a man down, yet Perth last year and this game, would seem they dont.
This is where you have to quesiton the leadership, last year more so with Read being more experienced.
I thought that they quite obviously changed up the tactics when Ofa left. They seemed to get confused once it was 14 on 14 and especially when it was 14 on 13.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@nzzp and that is what worried me, card and everything falls apart? id expect better
yes, but red cards in an inexperienced team can make people overthink it.
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Karl Tu'inukuafe (15)
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Codie Taylor (53)
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Ofa Tuungafasi (38)
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Scott Barrett (38)
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Samuel Whitelock (119)
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Akira Ioane *
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Sam Cane (71) - captain
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Ardie Savea (46)
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TJ Perenara (67)
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Beauden Barrett (85)
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Rieko Ioane (31)
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Ngani Laumape (14)
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Anton Lienert-Brown (46)
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Sevu Reece (7)
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Jordie Barrett (20)
...does that really look like an 'inexperience team"?...looks to me more like a very experience team with 1 on debut and only one other with less that 10 caps
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