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@barbarian
Oh indeed that true.
And the partisanship is worse and worse.
For example, I no longer consider the NY Times as anything more than a sophisticated liberal propaganda mechanism.I go with my gut, which of course means I am probably prejudiced as fuck - lol
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@Toddy said in US Politics:
What news source do people here use to follow what's going on in the States? I'm guessing most aren't impartial, but surely some must be better than others.
I'm currently subscribed to the WSJ and have been enjoying it so far.
Clearly I have to expand my reading. Is WSJ quite centrist?
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@dogmeat If I may, I would like to comment further;
Most if not all the protest in the US are in Democratically controlled cities and they are where lockdown measures have been most strictly enforced.
These Democratic Leaders, quick to fine and even jail average citizens for violating their lockdown edicts, have shown indecisiveness in action, excessive restraint in enforcing laws and protecting the people and their property, and otherwise exhibiting weak leadership abilities in dealing with the criminal arsonists and thieves that have infiltrated otherwise peaceful protesters, thereby emboldening them and making the situation much worse.
You may be right. What Trump has done may be more of the underlying factor than may first appear. It hasn’t just helped the blacks but other races as well including whites.
But...why is it spreading outside the US?
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@Frank said in US Politics:
@barbarian
Oh indeed that true.
And the partisanship is worse and worse.
For example, I no longer consider the NY Times as anything more than a sophisticated liberal propaganda mechanism.I go with my gut, which of course I am probably prejudiced as fuck - lol
I think we all have our inbuilt prejudices. But in the past everyone could accept certain truths, and there was a mutual respect for mainstream media. These days truth is what you make it. You can find an information source that echoes your own belief system. And that only makes people more extreme and less accepting of other viewpoints, believing those viewpoints to be nothing but lies
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@Toddy said in US Politics:
What news source do people here use to follow what's going on in the States? I'm guessing most aren't impartial, but surely some must be better than others.
I'm currently subscribed to the WSJ and have been enjoying it so far.
I just read an article on WaPo detailing how curfews have historically been implemented 'as a form of surveillance, control and criminalization of black people, indigenous people and other people of color.' Although interesting, I'm not sure how an example from 1690 is really relevant.
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@Ihadit c'mon - Fergusson Missouri ring a bell? Riots there went on for months and then sparked up again on the anniversary of Michael Brown's death. Not everything can be blamed on Corona virus.
The current rioting is far more to do with what is perceived of as centuries of oppression by authorities in the US and frustration that the situation is getting worse, not better. You can add in a large dollop of opportunistic looting but it's fuck all to do with people "exploding" because of a lockdown.
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You are most certainly entitled to your opinion sir, but I see it coming.
https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/lockdown-frustration-is-at-an-all-time-high/ar-BB14spoG
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.
Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"
Some seriously dodgy family business dealings
Biden's corrupt for sure.
He did (and bragged about it on tape) what Trump was accused of.
Trump needs to smash the scum who have gone after him.
Not with lies (that the Democrat leaders and fake news media knew were lies) that they threw at Trump. But with truth.Piss off @Winger . Trump doesn't need to smash anything, he needs to shut the fuck up and listen for a change. Of course a lot of people have obvious axes to grind, but he's the guy who wanted to be president so he can suck that shit up, it comes with the territory. He should also be able to understand that many of the people who criticise him don't have axes to grind, they just disagree, that they're allowed to disagree, and that they may in fact be right. But no, rather than shut up for a moment and consider whether that might be the case he goes straight for the "smashing", which will wow the hell out of his dim minded cheerleaders and achieve fuck all.
BTW, if Trump doesn't need to rely on lies to take his enemies down, why does he tell so many? Is it a pathological thing? And what enemies? Why does he have enemies? Normal people don't have enemies. They have people they disagree with, people they don't like and who don't like them, people they can't respect. But enemies? Fuck off, what is he 12? he needs to grow up, and if you buy his bullshit, so do you.
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@JC I don't get the standard Trump fan bois response of fake news, corrupt media yada yada all the while ignoring all the lies and BS Trump spouts incessantly.
the States has been in a long drawn out painful decline for decades and really needed someone who would indeed drain the swamp. Problem is they got Trump instead. There's not a flip he hasn't flopped, a promise he hasn't broken or a claim he hasn't invented. The guys clearly out of his depth but somehow the bullying and bluster carries the day.
Hilary would have been no better. Biden certainly isn't. Poor America. Poor world.
In about 20 years time when all the hooha dies down and things can be viewed more dispassionately its going to be very interesting how history judges Trump. Historically he reminds me most of Commodus - didn't that turn out well for Rome.
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Just on the complexities surrounding the autopsies re: Mr Floyd, this is a very informative video:
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@dogmeat said in US Politics:
@JC I don't get the standard Trump fan bois response of fake news, corrupt media yada yada all the while ignoring all the lies and BS Trump spouts incessantly.
the States has been in a long drawn out painful decline for decades and really needed someone who would indeed drain the swamp. Problem is they got Trump instead. There's not a flip he hasn't flopped, a promise he hasn't broken or a claim he hasn't invented. The guys clearly out of his depth but somehow the bullying and bluster carries the day.
Its not just Trump. Its Trump and his team.
There is no way Trump could have done this and retained power like he has without a brilliant, powerful and committed support teamIn my view Trump is the front man only
-To display silliness and confusion when strong
-And strength when weakUntil the time is right. Then the team makes their moves. Like firing and appointing people. New trade agreements. Withdrawing from international bodies etc
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@dogmeat said in US Politics:
@JC I don't get the standard Trump fan bois response of fake news, corrupt media yada yada all the while ignoring all the lies and BS Trump spouts incessantly.
the States has been in a long drawn out painful decline for decades and really needed someone who would indeed drain the swamp. Problem is they got Trump instead. There's not a flip he hasn't flopped, a promise he hasn't broken or a claim he hasn't invented. The guys clearly out of his depth but somehow the bullying and bluster carries the day.
Its not just Trump. Its Trump and his team.
There is no way Trump could have done this and retained power like he has without a brilliant, powerful and committed support teamIn my view Trump is the front man only
-To display silliness and confusion when strong
-And strength when weakUntil the time is right. Then the team makes their moves. Like firing and appointing people. New trade agreements. Withdrawing from international bodies etc
Delusional.
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@Ihadit said in US Politics:
@dogmeat If I may, I would like to comment further;
Most if not all the protest in the US are in Democratically controlled cities and they are where lockdown measures have been most strictly enforced.
These Democratic Leaders, quick to fine and even jail average citizens for violating their lockdown edicts, have shown indecisiveness in action, excessive restraint in enforcing laws and protecting the people and their property, and otherwise exhibiting weak leadership abilities in dealing with the criminal arsonists and thieves that have infiltrated otherwise peaceful protesters, thereby emboldening them and making the situation much worse.
You may be right. What Trump has done may be more of the underlying factor than may first appear. It hasn’t just helped the blacks but other races as well including whites.
But...why is it spreading outside the US?
Do you know a single thing about London?
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Good to see Mattis giving an opinion:
In Union There Is Strength
I have watched this week's unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words "Equal Justice Under Law" are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.
When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.
We must reject any thinking of our cities as a "battlespace" that our uniformed military is called upon to "dominate." At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict— between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part.
Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders
who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.
James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that "America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more
forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat." We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.
Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that "The Nazi slogan for destroying us...was 'Divide and Conquer.' Our American answer is 'In Union there is Strength.'" We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.
Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.
We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln's "better angels," and listen to them, as we work to unite.
Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.
James Mattis -
@dogmeat said in US Politics:
@JC I don't get the standard Trump fan bois response of fake news, corrupt media yada yada all the while ignoring all the lies and BS Trump spouts incessantly.
The problem is that a lot of anti-Trump news does turn out to be fake or so twisted as to be fake. The media (on both sides) share a lot of the blame for the current political situation in the US. They've looked for headlines rather than fact and seem more interested in whipping up outrage than informing people.
In about 20 years time when all the hooha dies down and things can be viewed more dispassionately its going to be very interesting how history judges Trump. Historically he reminds me most of Commodus - didn't that turn out well for Rome.
I think history may judge Obama even harsher. He exacerbated the cultural divide in the US, withdrew from the world, and pretty much looked on while whole swathes of US industry disappeared and ignored the social impacts.
Hilary would have been no better. Biden certainly isn't. Poor America. Poor world.
I worry Biden is going to as divisive as Trump, if not more. I think he'll be too weak to hold back those in his party who seem out for revenge against Trump, his supporters and voter base.
I just hope some sensible heads in the US realise the dangers, wind back the rhetoric and realise that those who disagree with you aren't evil or un-American. But I'm not holding my breath.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
I think history may judge Obama even harsher. He exacerbated the cultural divide in the US, withdrew from the world, and pretty much looked on while whole swathes of US industry disappeared and ignored the social impacts.
You think Obama was more divisive than Trump, and Biden will be more divisive than Trump?
Mattis above says: "Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try." That's about right I reckon.You think Obama withdrew from the world more than Trump? The coronavirus response and pulling out of the WHO, the games with the G7, the Iran deal gone, Kyoto protocol, even Hong Kong just recently etc etc. Trump probably wouldn't have an ally in the world were it not for America's money and historical status.
You think Trump's current 15% unemployment and the social impacts from that are going to be considered less serious than what happened during Obama's years?
US Politics